Is Power Just Power?

[somekook 10+ year member]

learn english. there was not one complete sentence in that post

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

learn english. there was not one complete sentence in that post

x210 chars

 

[80_Cutlass_mn 10+ year member]

Yea I know...I failed english. Oh well who cares, you get the point. Besides I typed that in a hurry.

Edit: on second though I may start typing like that all the time. At least someone notices me then.

 

[Diplexers 10+ year member]

I am too lazy to read the entire thread, but the major difference between high end and low end amps is the design of the power supply. That is where you hear the difference. Low end amps such as the VR3 stuff at walmart have an insane amount of noise do to the power supply.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

design, efficiency, S/N ratio, transient distortion, separation, damping factor.......too many variables to dictate sound

Yes, a watt is a watt......but how well an amplifier delivers that watt/signal to a speaker is what separates an amp with "clean power" to the rest

Damping factor equals speaker control- some say that damping factor is nothing to worry about- In a way, if you are buying a quality product, regardless it has a decent damp factor-

the problem lies though on what the customer believes is a quality product and the application it is using the amplifier for- many like to run their equipment at below the 4ohm impedance, so the damping factor cuts in half @ 2ohm, then again @ 1ohm- So the amp you thought had a decent damp factor of 200-250 is now only putting ~50 at 1ohm has very low speaker control- this insn't very important to the SPL guys because they see plenty of distortion, moving air is their primary concern

Speakers not only present a resistive load from the amplifier, but create a highly reactive one,the higher the damp factor of the amp the best that amplifier can keep that resistive load from creating distortion- There is an audible difference, trust "your" ears, not others

I have heard the difference, my amp has a damping factor of 2000

 

[NINaudio 10+ year member]

Quite a broad statement....care to elaborate...?

Every piece of equipment "colors" the sound it produces. The lesser ones often produce more noticeable sound than the better ones. If you go to any audiophile page you will see that they try to use as little equipment in the signal chain as possible in order to prevent this coloring of the music. Do vacuum tube amps sound the same as class a/b amps? No, they often have what people refer to as a "warmer" sound.

Yes, a watt is a watt......but how well an amplifier delivers that watt/signal to a speaker is what separates an amp with "clean power" to the rest
Speakers not only present a resistive load from the amplifier, but create a highly reactive one,the higher the damp factor of the amp the best that amplifier can keep that resistive load from creating distortion- There is an audible difference, trust "your" ears, not others

Finally someone else who agrees. Like I've said before, I have heard a difference in going from one amp to another while all other variables remained the same. Some people notice these things and some don't, that's all I can say.

 

[ShakinSupra 10+ year member]

I have heard a difference in going from one amp to another while all other variables remained the same.

If you can do it in a blind test go collect your $10,000.

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showpost.php?p=150130&postcount=1

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

If you can do it in a blind test go collect your $10,000.
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showpost.php?p=150130&postcount=1

See, this is where ppl are confused. That test DOES NOT PROVE that all amps are equal. It DOES prove that there is no SQ in a watt. In the test he bypassess almost everything in the amp and strips away everything that makes an amp unique.....he doesn't use the amp's internal power supply (he bypassess that power supply and uses an external unit), he defeats any built-in EQ's/crossovers/anything else that affects sound (even if it is not user defeatable...which means that you or I couldn't defeat those same features).

Again, that test does not prove that all amps are equal or that all amps sound the same. All it proves is that a watt is a watt, which is totally different.

 

[ShakinSupra 10+ year member]

That's what I said in my first post...

I also don't see anywhere in his rules where he says he bypasses the amps internal power supply. He says they're both run off of the same power supply at 14v, but I don't see where is removes the internal power supply. And he also says that if the crossover or processing is not defeatable, that an eq would be used to compensate..

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

Every piece of equipment "colors" the sound it produces. The lesser ones often produce more noticeable sound than the better ones. If you go to any audiophile page you will see that they try to use as little equipment in the signal chain as possible in order to prevent this coloring of the music. Do vacuum tube amps sound the same as class a/b amps? No, they often have what people refer to as a "warmer" sound.

That 'warmer' sound is also called 'coloration'...which is distortion added into the equation...

Like I said....a woofer will create a lot more distortion than 99% of the amplifiers on the market...

 

[NINaudio 10+ year member]

If you can do it in a blind test go collect your $10,000.
http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showpost.php?p=150130&postcount=1

OK, let me just go fly off to England right now to take this test. If he was in the US it is something I would actually consider doing. Not to mention that he requires someone to get 24 out of 24 correct......nobody is perfect. I also said that every peice of equipment "colors" the signal passing through it to one degree or another.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

OK, let me just go fly off to England right now to take this test.

Richard Clark is in the US //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Autosound 2000, Inc.,

2557 Faucette Lane,

Burlington, NC 27217

^^^ Is where you would go for the test

IIRC, Eric Holdaway did "win", but RC said that the testing session was flawed somehow and refused to pay him.

But like I said, that challenge is not to prove that all amps are equal or that all amps sound the same. It is to prove that there is no SQ in a watt, which is different than saying that all amps sound the same.

 

[JohnnyStep 10+ year member]

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but...

Sungwei said his friend was looking for equipment on a budget. I'm in the same boat right now, and the one thing I'm having the hardest time deciding on is, of course, the amplifier.

What are your top picks for clean power on a budget? I need about 100w per channel, preferably in a 4ch unit, but I might get multiple 2ch units.

--Johnny

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but...
Sungwei said his friend was looking for equipment on a budget. I'm in the same boat right now, and the one thing I'm having the hardest time deciding on is, of course, the amplifier.

What are your top picks for clean power on a budget? I need about 100w per channel, preferably in a 4ch unit, but I might get multiple 2ch units.

--Johnny

"Budget" is a relative term, and everyone's definition is different. If you want good suggestions, then we need to know a dollar amount that you want to spend. $200? $300? $400? $150?

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

People don't realize that a subwoofer/speaker will most likely create more distortion than the amp driving it...

Mr. SQ over here

:hilarious :hilarious