Is my Red Top Dead/Dying? --- And, eliminate noise.

[blaze_01]

First question. Please red second question in the post under too.

Hello.

I gonna try to make it simple but wont be easy.

So i have had this saloon for 5 years,

its a 1997 model and the early owners bought it when it was released back then.

They buildt a Stereo in it and its been in the car since.

Ive upgraded amps and speakers but all cable's etc still there fully intact.

The car also had a Oldskool lanzar 2200 working fine. Its a TANK!

And like any goverment, powerhungry as hell.

And i got another two amps but i write that a bit under here.

Now to the red top question.

I have no idea if the battery have been in the car since 1997 lol, i doubt so

but it was in the car when i bought it 5 years ago.

So i decided to measure the voltage on the car not running today,

and got a reading of around 12.5v on the red top.

If i play music not too loud but quite loud, the lights dim quite alot.

another problem is the winters, and this is what annoys me!

This battery is supposed to be a monster starter battery, but in cold winters

(yes COLD! -25c/-13F and colder) The battery just cant do much.

it gets drained super fast in the winters. Just over night at its real bad.

It cranks the engine soooo slowly that sometimes im afraid that it wont start.

However it usually starts after a while but its real slow.

Any other car with a different battery with waaaaay lower cranking amps start much easier than me.

However, after ive started the car, drive for a while, the car start easily if i let it rest a few hours.

Could this indicate a bad redtop?

if yes, is there a way i could fix it or would i get a different battery?

im actually looking for some marine batteries next time. they cant be worse cranking than this redtop.

A note though is that i havent had any serious trouble with the battery.

You can check out this video i found.

Listen at 7 second mark and you will heard how my car are at vinters.

And no, i dont have a parasite xD

Click to read more...

 

[blaze_01]

Second Question:

I have noise in my car, just normal alternator noise with a bit of crackling sound in the rear speakers, but normal whiney.

I have tried to figure out this and its a bit weird, so i gotta go in close details here in order to get any real helpful suggestions.

So i have 3 amps.

- 1 for Tweeters (2x75rms@4ohm)

- 1 for sub (1x800rms@2ohm)

- 1 for Rearspeakers AND Frontspeakers TWO channels TWO RCA's Front/back (4x90rms@4ohm)

The cars cable management was well done by previous owner,

the current flows on the right side and the signals flow on the left side.

I have 3 Rca's connected while the 4th RCA (for the tweeters) is using a

splitter which goes on the front set aswell. so front and tweeters goes on the same RCA to the headunit.

The sub is connected to the head unit ofc,

But the THIRD cable, makes noise.

it doesnt matter if its, REAR or FRONT RCA i connect, and it doesnt matter WHICH channel i choose on the head unit.

I can put rear speakers on front channel, or front on rear, or just front on front etc,

it just doesnt matter how it do it, because when a THIRD rca is connected, there is noise!

If i remove the front, its gone. if i remove the rear, its gone. it doesnt matter.

so its not a cable, its not the input on headunit nothing gives me a clue at all.

I tried to read the voltage on the grounding point for the amps, and i got a reading of 13.7-13.8v

im not sure if thats a good reading but i assume my ground is pretty good.

Guys i cant figure this out o.o

I have not done the big three and decided to give it a go tomorrow.

I have done some pre measurements on the current grounding

in my car and here is the results:

Ground Battery to chassis = 002

Ground battery to engine = 065

Ground battery to alternator = 052

My headunit is a pioneer.

And ive been using the grounding cable on the RCA's as remote control for a long time with no trouble.

I recently read about what it actually was for and i never had any clue about that lol, so today i made a new remote cable for all the amps,

not using the rca ground cable, hoping that to fix the whine, but it didnt.

i tried to ground the Rca but im not sure if its done right.

I took all 3 Rca grounds, and screwed them into the headunit on a screw there, then all the other 3 ends in the rear of my car i screwed to each amp,

to the base of the amp on a screw.

Would this be the right way? well it didnt eliminate the noise.

EDIT: i just tried the cable trick behind headunit as shown in a post in this section. not working.

Thats all the info i got. any input is appreciated.

 

[sharkman]

i wouldnt be any help in this matter but your post is super long.i made that mistake before and no one read it or answered my concern... i would upgrade the - and + cables under the hood. and everytime i see people with red or yellow tops they are beat to hell. i would go down the list by first getting a new battery other then that old worn red top. you can get a xs power battery off line for half the price that would be double to power. Do this first before you get stuck somewhere..then get a new fan belt it could be old and worn which would mess with the alt. i just had to get a new belt and tensioner after upgrading my alt...oh and get bigger - and + cables or whaat they call BIG 3... dont worry about the noise now just make sure you can get around first. and never know doing this might fix your noise problem. which i be the wire for you amp if its not 2 or 0 ga.

 

[blaze_01]

Thanks for the input man.

I should get a new battery indeed. But it works wounders for just daily use, but not for winters and music use.

I decided to measure voltage today because my subwoofer is lowering the volume when playing loud.

I measured down to 10 volts on the cables right before the amps, and when i turned the sub gain to zero, i got 12volts which is still low, however the other two amps for the speakers still played.

I wounder if this is a battery problem?

There is no way im going to upgrade my alternator for different reasons. Its charging 80ah.

Im having two capasitors at 0.5f each, but my measurement was made before the capasitors.

Could a proper battery fix this?

Also i did make new grounds for engine and chassis today. i measured real real low resistance on the places is connected the new grounds. i guess thats good right?

next up would be having a bigger cable for the alternator.

Would i make a new ground for the alternator too? if so it would be "the big 4" and not the big 3. just woundering.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

why wonder when you can get stuff tested for free? You have to test everything thats wrong in your charging system.

1: Ditch the capacitors, they do more harm then good.

2: Turn your system on full blast and measure how low your voltage drops

3: go to autozone or advanced auto and have them load test all your batteries, if they are still good, use the one that can start well as a starting battery and add the red top to the back/hatch/trunk as a secondary battery.

4: make sure you do the big 3.

5: if all else fails, check the alternator to see if it needs a new belt or pulley, hell, even take the alt to autozone/advanced to get load tested too.

6: make everything short and sweet with your posts, when people ask for more details then you post them, but a big long story like that will just turn people off from helping you out in your thread because a lot are too lazy to read.

 

[blaze_01]

1: Ditch the capacitors, they do more harm then good.

you sure? its a system crying for power

2: Turn your system on full blast and measure how low your voltage drops

10.2v at worst. sub black's out because of voltage drop

3: go to autozone or advanced auto and have them load test all your batteries, if they are still good, use the one that can start well as a starting battery and add the red top to the back/hatch/trunk as a secondary battery.

not sure if im willing to wire up bigger gauge cables for any rear batteries now. Just consider getting a new battery in front and take the rest from there.

4: make sure you do the big 3.

done the "big 2" until now. Battery to chassis & battery to engine. will do the alternator soon

5: if all else fails, check the alternator to see if it needs a new belt or pulley, hell, even take the alt to autozone/advanced to get load tested too.

Alternator is 1 week old, brand new, recently installed by approved mechanics

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

1: Ditch the capacitors, they do more harm then good.you sure? its a system crying for power

2: Turn your system on full blast and measure how low your voltage drops

10.2v at worst. sub black's out because of voltage drop

3: go to autozone or advanced auto and have them load test all your batteries, if they are still good, use the one that can start well as a starting battery and add the red top to the back/hatch/trunk as a secondary battery.

not sure if im willing to wire up bigger gauge cables for any rear batteries now. Just consider getting a new battery in front and take the rest from there.

4: make sure you do the big 3.

done the "big 2" until now. Battery to chassis & battery to engine. will do the alternator soon

5: if all else fails, check the alternator to see if it needs a new belt or pulley, hell, even take the alt to autozone/advanced to get load tested too.

Alternator is 1 week old, brand new, recently installed by approved mechanics

100% that capacitor is just draining your system of power you dont have. Capacitors dont make power they just store power but its 1/1000th of a battery pretty much completely utterly useless get rid of it. Read up on the truth about capacitors and you'll know everyone that's reputable in the car audio community knows capacitors are junk. They store soo little power its pretty much a parasitic draw onto the system nothing more.

The price of a regular capacitor, you can get a battery that can actual store amperage and give your amps the current they need.

The only type of capacitor that would work is an ultra/super capacitor bank. Ultra capacitor banks on the other hand are a lot more expensive but they work.

10.2V is the reason why your whole system is failing. You are clipping your amps hard at that level of voltage too. I'd honestly recommend doing the battery in the back. Your voltage should never drop any lower then 12 volts that's red line for any car electrical system. I'm surprise you haven't blown anything yet. Healthy charging systems are at 13.8 to 14.4 volts

Trust me, a good AGM (absorbent glass mat)battery or a 2ndary battery will help your voltage by far. Dont go with optima batteries, overpriced weak batteries. Look up on XS power, kinetik, odyssey, diehard platinum, duracell platinum, dekas. All are superior batteries to optima.

 

[blaze_01]

Okay thanks that helped.

So i get rid of the capasitors, get a terminal/hub for the cables back there and rewire.

I have no measured the charging voltage in front while loading my system, but i measured 13.7v on battery with stereo off with car running.

i was buying some 4awg cables in a store for grounding engine etc, then i asked about second battery in the rear and they told me

that if i were going to do that i had to get even thicker cables from front to back, and i had to make sure somehow that both batteries

got charged evenly.. i didnt quite get what he tried to tell me though.

Could i just mount up a battery easy without doing anything spectacular? i THINK the cable to the back is 1 gauge.

My budget is not big now, i had to get super expensive alternator change done for my car on vacation after it failed.

they ****** all my money 1021usd for a stock alternator, the job, and for road rescue etc.

So my budget would be a normal marine battery maybe. lets say a budget of 235usd, and remember its overpriced over here. anything is 3x times the original price.. yikes..

Ïm considering a Excide agm.

 

[blaze_01]

I'm surprise you haven't blown anything yet.

There is some sweet smell when i play too loud... **** i didnt really think too much about this... its fused with 80A though, 100A front fuse and 80A back fuse.

Any more information will help. Im really into figuring it all out.

Just remember my whole system is 1400wrms if thats intresting (about awg, sizes, fuses etc)

I would love to snap a few pictures and upload if that would help.

 

[yogegoy]

No red top last more than 5 years, they don't like being overcharged.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

dont worry about what they say man, just grab a run of 0 gauge, knukonceptz or sky high car audio online, a lot cheaper then what people in the stores sell for and good quality. Wire the batteries parallel, you are just increasing your cold cranking amps bank. front battery Positive to rear battery positive and rear negative to chasis ground.

You are prioritizing your money spending very wrong man. I'd get 0 gauge wire in there asap. TEST YOUR CURRENT BATTERIES at any autoparts store ITS FREE. If they are good, you dont need to spend on more batteries just throw the red top in the back that will make the most difference in stabilizing voltage along with 0 gauge wire for everything, big 3, amps, grounds, etc. A 50 foot spool of 0 gauge costs less then that battery you mentioned. If you want it even cheaper, you can use CCA 0/1 gauge instead of OFC since you arent running that much power. Also get a digital multi meter from sears or walmart its only 15 bucks, it'll measure your voltages

Buget option that works with your current amount of power you are running up to 2500 watts rms.

50 ft 1 0 Gauge AWG 25' Black 25' Red Oversized Power Ground Wire Sky High Car | eBay

Long term future proof solution if you are planning on running over 3000 watts rms

50 ft OFC 1 0 Gauge Oversized Red Power Ground Wire w Spool Sky High Car Audio | eBay

10 1 0 Gauge Copper Ring Terminals 3 8" Red Black Heat Shrink Tubing Lugs | eBay

Either crimp it yourself or have a shop crimp it for you.

I repeat again, do not buy wires from a store, they are rip off artists most of the times charging 1.5-3x more then it normally costs.

The emergency alternator service is a complete rip off man, get triple A towing/roadside assistance premium only 60 bucks a year but will save you a **** ton of money. You could have had a High output alternator, a 50 foot spool of 1/0 gauge wire and a powerful AGM with that amount of money.

 

[blaze_01]

That was alot of information thankyou very much.

About using zero gauge on grounding the engine etc, i wounder if thats a bit overkill.

Considering my small battery, my 80ah charging alternator and a 1400wrms stereo.

Because i already bought cables and fitted them before i read this. they are 4 gauge.

Also the main cable going to the rear seems to be 1 or 2 gauge.

Getting a zero gauge back there is probably very smart if im getting an aditional battery, but it frightens me to start doin all that work.

The current red cable goes under the carpet, i must dismount the driver seat, and take off the carpet, i looked at it today and it looks like a pain to do, many hours of work and frustration.

However here are some readings i recently did:

Car not not running - Battery 12.5V

Car running - Battery 14.1V

Car running stereo max load - Battery 11V

Car running stereo max Red cable on AMP to GROUND CHASSIS 10.5V

And now here is a wounder story:

I decided to get a new HU today, i started thinking the HU was the reason for Signal noise.

So i took out my 5 year old Pioneer HU and inserted a brand new ALPINE 178BT.

what a BLAST! the sound quality improved like CRAZY, the bass got more tight, AND the lights barely blinks anymore.

The Sub amp dont clip because of powerloss.

I have not yes measured the volts on load with the new HU, but so far its great joy!

However playing VERY loud gives a electronic smell in the car.

MY car still have start problems on cold winters, so i still consider a new battery in front though...

Ur right, the cables i bought from store, 4awg was very expensive. VERY.

And the emergency alternator service sure also a complete ripoff... but i had to.. 12 hours drive from home, and i was in a real hurry and super frustrated and nervous

because of the sudden engine stop on the motorway.

But thanks for the links. i would consider upgrading my cable to the rear, getting the battery there, removing the capasitors etc when ive thinked a bit more about it.

Winter are 2 months away and i really need to find a good solution for cold starts now. remember it could get super cold here.

and i preffer having all heaters on, mirror heaters, rear window heaters, blowers, and music LOL!

But can you explain how the new HU worked a few problems out for me?

The noise is not gone, but its much lower now. but still there.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

old cheap head units have weak sound processing and high levels of Total harmonic distortion. A good head unit makes the biggest difference in sound quality and clean signal. You'll probably want to retune your amp's gain settings, you are probably clipping a lot of stuff still. Sooner or later something will blow. Use the DMM method to set gains. Also you might want to redo your ground. 10.5 vs 11 is a lot of resistance. Make sure its a ground straight to the chassis/frame and its sanded down to bare metal.

 

[blaze_01]

Set gains done.

question: Which fuse size for alt-bat 90a alternator, 4 gauge cable.

EDIT: nvm changed my mind, ordering zero gauge.

I wont upgrade my alt in the future, and neither the amps, was woundering if i really needed zero gauge for the alt.