Importance of having Components in the front and rear???

Sweet!! How come my momma always faced me to the front in my car seat? Those kids are way too cute not to look at them. Must be a safety thing.
Definetly a saftey thing, incase of a frontal collosion the entire rear part of the baby's body will be pressed onto the entire seat spreading the load & causing considerably less injury to their body compared to a front facing when the weight is spread across the belt which at that age, they are very fragile & might not be able to take.

Id rather just face em backwards & be comfortable knowing they are safer //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

As for the rear fill, ive only had rear speakers in my car for the last year...yeah im serious lol never made time to get it taken car of. Broken crossovers FTL. Drove me nuts the 1st few months, but now ill most likley never want a rear stage again. Ive had enough of rear fill.

 
But surround sound is for Movies, not music. I think this question is directed towards daily driving music.
just to interject my .02, ever been to a night club? dance floor is in the middle of the room, high's hung from the ceiling at each corner, mid range & mid bass usuallu on all 4 sides and subs in atleast 2 corners, all powered by atleast 50,000 watts of digital power. enough said. Sounds awesome and in the prime spot (middle of the floor) you become one with the music. I know this for a fact cause i run a night club and the people live for the sound, those that do not dance all try to stand on the edges of the dance floor to get the vibe from the music and sound. all sound comes from every angle! AWESOME!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

 
just to interject my .02, ever been to a night club? dance floor is in the middle of the room, high's hung from the ceiling at each corner, mid range & mid bass usuallu on all 4 sides and subs in atleast 2 corners, all powered by atleast 50,000 watts of digital power. enough said. Sounds awesome and in the prime spot (middle of the floor) you become one with the music. I know this for a fact cause i run a night club and the people live for the sound, those that do not dance all try to stand on the edges of the dance floor to get the vibe from the music and sound. all sound comes from every angle! AWESOME!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif
There's a difference between being surrounded by sound and "surround sound."

How's the imaging at the club? Oh that's right there isn't any. What about the staging? Oh yeah, still none.

The people that can't dance stand next to the dance floor so they can check out the chicks on the floor and so it's loud enough that they don't have to be able to carry on a conversation because they're to socially inept to do so. I fall into most of that so I know from where I speak. I did however learn to converse and realized early on that I couldn't dance nd quit going to clubs and began frequenting bars.

A night club need be nothing but LOUD. The quality of the sound is totally secondary to the volume. In fact I would say that it follows the old Soviet military matra of "Quantity has a quality all its own." Don't take that the wrong way. You pretty much have crap for source material anyway so it really makes sense to make it loud enough that you can't really tell. Besides who goes to the club to listen critically to music anyway. "Uhn tiss uhn tiss uhn tiss" isn't exactly audiophile grade material.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 
My speakers always sounded better from the rear than the fronts, when it was stock and till now with my combo of mb quarts and focals. My mercedes is a coupe so the rears are close enough to please me so I put my components in the rear and the tweets are almost aligned with my headrest

 
it dosen't matter. if you put the time into it it will work. plenty of people with rear speaks have won sq comps, the same with people running no rear fill... its all about tuning, install, and how pussy whipped the judge is

 
Having speakers in the front door is the front stage,

having speakers in the rear door, that not rear fill is it.

couse i still got speakers in the rear dash that im not going to replace , im not going to power these speakers at all .

Soo the rear door speakers are more in the middle of the car, soo its ok right, couse its not a rear fill???

 
There's a difference between being surrounded by sound and "surround sound."
How's the imaging at the club? Oh that's right there isn't any. What about the staging? Oh yeah, still none.

The people that can't dance stand next to the dance floor so they can check out the chicks on the floor and so it's loud enough that they don't have to be able to carry on a conversation because they're to socially inept to do so. I fall into most of that so I know from where I speak. I did however learn to converse and realized early on that I couldn't dance nd quit going to clubs and began frequenting bars.

A night club need be nothing but LOUD. The quality of the sound is totally secondary to the volume. In fact I would say that it follows the old Soviet military matra of "Quantity has a quality all its own." Don't take that the wrong way. You pretty much have crap for source material anyway so it really makes sense to make it loud enough that you can't really tell. Besides who goes to the club to listen critically to music anyway. "Uhn tiss uhn tiss uhn tiss" isn't exactly audiophile grade material.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
Dude, i do not know what the clubs in vegas are like, but here in NYC we only use state of the art equipmrnt as for imaging and sound quality goes, every live performer taps into our system to suppliment theirs. I think that when spending over 50K for a sound system and bringing in the best sound experts in the business to design it so that there is proper imaging and quality makes a difference, by your own admission, you stopped going to clubs and began frequenting bar's, obviously the industry has changed and you are not aware. We take our sound very seriously and as a result have one of the best systems in the business. as far as source material we are 100% digital and top of the line digital, our booth alone cost over 10k just for source equip. that is probably 50 times more than anyone would ever spend on a car audio system. Next time you are going to be in NYC contact me ahead of time and i will set you and your guests up with tickets and a VIP table, then tell me after a fair listen that it is a poor quality system based solely on loudness.

 
Dude, i do not know what the clubs in vegas are like, but here in NYC we only use state of the art equipmrnt as for imaging and sound quality goes, every live performer taps into our system to suppliment theirs. I think that when spending over 50K for a sound system and bringing in the best sound experts in the business to design it so that there is proper imaging and quality makes a difference, by your own admission, you stopped going to clubs and began frequenting bar's, obviously the industry has changed and you are not aware. We take our sound very seriously and as a result have one of the best systems in the business. as far as source material we are 100% digital and top of the line digital, our booth alone cost over 10k just for source equip. that is probably 50 times more than anyone would ever spend on a car audio system. Next time you are going to be in NYC contact me ahead of time and i will set you and your guests up with tickets and a VIP table, then tell me after a fair listen that it is a poor quality system based solely on loudness.
What type of club is it? What type of live acts do you have? Depending on the act and the size of your place, it usually makes sense for them to patch into your setup for the simple reason that it is simple. Less stuff to move in and out and set up and less room taken up by redundant amps and stacks. You are still limited by how you have it set up. Highs in the corners and mids on the sides cannot create a proper stereo image. It can totally immerse the audience in sound which is sometimes the goal, but that does not mean the same thing as accurate staging and imaging. Basically your mids and highs are rotated in the room 45 degrees from each other. If you were to face so that the highs were arrayed one on your left and right in front of you and behind you (a normal front and rear stereo setup) you end up with mids directly to your front and rear and directly to your left and right. It is not possible to get a solid front stage wih proper left-to-right imaging with that setup. In a dance club it doesn't make sense to set up for proper staging and imaging as there is no defined front. It makes perfect sense to totally envelop the crowd in sound.

I think you are misconstruing my comments to imply that I think your sound system in your club doesn't sound good. Not the case. Having never heard it myself, I can' really make a comment. I'll take your word for it that it is extremely well done and that it sounds good. I can however say that it does not image and stage the same way that a nice home or car stereo will.

I have been to clubs all over the world, BTW. Tokyo, Moscow, Albuquerque, LA, Denver, Memphis and many other places. Many of the places I've been have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in the sound system. They pride themselves, much as you do, in having a state of the art system. They do what they were intended to do, provide plenty of sound with enough detail that you can understand the words and still pound the chest with bass, extremely well, but they don't image at all.

A music club, one intended to provide a nice venue for live music, has a very different sound setup. There is a defined front and everything is keyed to stage front. A solid left and right front stage are established. If there are any speakers not in the front, they are barely amplified and are ususally a small two-way. Typically they are turned off during the live show and are only used to play the filler between sets. I love going to these clubs. Mostly because I love live music. These clubs and his type venue are the usual guage for a proper car or home stereo setup in reference to imaging and staging. With a system that images and stages properly, you should be able to close your eyes and place each instrument on the stage. The guitar is on the right, rythm is on the left, bass in the center and drummer in the left rear for example. This can all be done without rear speakers.

 
Dude, i do not know what the clubs in vegas are like, but here in NYC we only use state of the art equipmrnt as for imaging and sound quality goes, every live performer taps into our system to suppliment theirs. I think that when spending over 50K for a sound system and bringing in the best sound experts in the business to design it so that there is proper imaging and quality makes a difference, by your own admission, you stopped going to clubs and began frequenting bar's, obviously the industry has changed and you are not aware. We take our sound very seriously and as a result have one of the best systems in the business. as far as source material we are 100% digital and top of the line digital, our booth alone cost over 10k just for source equip. that is probably 50 times more than anyone would ever spend on a car audio system. Next time you are going to be in NYC contact me ahead of time and i will set you and your guests up with tickets and a VIP table, then tell me after a fair listen that it is a poor quality system based solely on loudness.
Next time you have one of those high class acts in your club, have them stand on the stage and without the use of mics, speakers, guitar pickups or amplifiers, have them perform a brief song "unplugged". Then, plug everything in and give the lead singer a mic and let me know if the amplified performance possesses the same "staging and imaging" as the unamplified version. If it doesn't (and, given how you stated your sound system is setup, it will not), then you do not have proper imaging and soundstaging.

Also, when Helo said the source wasn't audiophile grade....I believe he was referring to the music and quality of that recorded music rather than to your setup. Dance club music isn't recorded on an "audiophile" grade, and typically does not possess the best sound quality to begin with.

 
Throw a pair of midbass drivers in the rear. You don't need tweets for rear fill.

Some of you guys are using a concert setting to make your point. You don't think you're getting sound bounced back at you from the rear of the pavillion? The highs are dulled substanially but the midbass is coming back at you.

 
Some of you guys are using a concert setting to make your point. You don't think you're getting sound bounced back at you from the rear of the pavillion? The highs are dulled substanially but the midbass is coming back at you.
1) That's an affect of the enviornment, not of the peformance. If the concert is in an open area, then this would obviously not be a problem //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

2) A properly setup stereo, with only front speakers, can produce this effect if the recording was a live recording that *should* include these effects.

The problem with rear speakers is that you are then receiving information from the rear when there should be none, not when it's a part of the enviornment as what might happen in a concert hall. Second problem is the increased number of point sources, which can reek havoc on phasing and frequency response.

 
Dude, i do not know what the clubs in vegas are like, but here in NYC we only use state of the art equipmrnt as for imaging and sound quality goes, every live performer taps into our system to suppliment theirs. I think that when spending over 50K for a sound system and bringing in the best sound experts in the business to design it so that there is proper imaging and quality makes a difference, by your own admission, you stopped going to clubs and began frequenting bar's, obviously the industry has changed and you are not aware. We take our sound very seriously and as a result have one of the best systems in the business. as far as source material we are 100% digital and top of the line digital, our booth alone cost over 10k just for source equip. that is probably 50 times more than anyone would ever spend on a car audio system. Next time you are going to be in NYC contact me ahead of time and i will set you and your guests up with tickets and a VIP table, then tell me after a fair listen that it is a poor quality system based solely on loudness.

BOLDDDD statement. i know in my new system its gonna be around 2-3K for source units...probably closer to 3...and im sure there are plenty of people who outdue me. get 2 nice EQ's, 3*1000 dollar amps. a 1500 dollar Flip Screen...thats about 5K right there. that doesnt include any active Xovers that person is probably runnin, so add another grand

 
What type of club is it? What type of live acts do you have? Depending on the act and the size of your place, it usually makes sense for them to patch into your setup for the simple reason that it is simple. Less stuff to move in and out and set up and less room taken up by redundant amps and stacks.
Marc Anthony with full orchestra, Jennifer Lopez, Ludicris, Victor Manuel with band, Judy Torres, Coro, Cynthia, TKA, Flogging Molly, Chili Pepers (several years ago) the list goes on. as you would know the latin acts involve alot of staging and imaging. at 100.00 or nore a person to get in you do not cut corners with an act and sound... artists are very picky. we hold over 3000 people in the main room i will try to attach a photo.

View attachment 5355

 
BOLDDDD statement. i know in my new system its gonna be around 2-3K for source units...probably closer to 3...and im sure there are plenty of people who outdue me. get 2 nice EQ's, 3*1000 dollar amps. a 1500 dollar Flip Screen...thats about 5K right there. that doesnt include any active Xovers that person is probably runnin, so add another grand
Each CD player costs over 3grand, we run 3, that does not include any of the amps (all crown's) any crossover / sound processors, mixers or the sound board (24 track board cost over 35K alone) this is not your neighborhood dive, this is a major concert/dance/performance venue in manhattan and holds over 3000 patrons on the main floor (stage and dance floor) not to mention another 18000 square feet of lounge space. We have 3 seprate sound systems (main room, lounge, VIP lounge) Club was remodeled 5 years ago at a cost of 6.5 MILLION dollars, sound systems are updated bi annually, there is a staff of 4 sound engineers that are constantly tweeking, replacing blown out mids, subs, adjusting, positioning, adding, enhancing.....

 
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