Hybrid audio clarus tuning help, tweeters are harsh S sound, possible sibilance

[hari-bhari 10+ year member]

Hi guys, just upgraded from DLS MS6a comps to a Hybrid Audio Clarus C61-2 set being run passively off an mb quart dsc4125, sourced with a CarPC. I am having some issues with harshness in the tweeters where the S sounds are very piercing, especially at higher volumes (I believe this is called sibilance). I have contacted Bob at Hyrbid (who has been great so far!) but I figured I could post here as well for additional feedback or tips. My email to him is pasted below with all the pertinent information.

Hi Bob,

So I was finally able to get both speakers installed. The midbass is much improved! I may still try and open things back up and add additional sound deadening to the doors. If you recall, I am using a car computer with an onboard DSP to provide the signal. The crossover allows me to select a combination of up to 5 HP/LP/BP/notch/shelf EQs per channel. However, instead of providing a 12/24db slope, I have a Q-value to adjust the slope. Currently it's set to HP at 65hz at a Q of 1.01. I also have the option of an individual 5 band parametric EQ and a standard 10 band EQ per channel.

The biggest problem I am having now is harshness or sibilance (S-sounds and high notes are very piercing), which is causing me a great deal of fatigue at lower volumes and is nearly unbearable at higher volumes. Both tweeters are still at -3dB on the passive crossovers, mounted in the factory door locations of my 2000 Solara. The passenger tweeter is maybe only about 10 degrees off axis to me, and the driver's tweeter is more or less pointed at the steering wheel.

So far, I have experimented with EQing down all bands from 3khz-16khz an additional 4-6db, however this is making the music sound flat and lose its detail. I have also tried reversing phase on one or both tweeters, which has helped some but still not solved the problem at higher volumes (is it worth trying to reverse the phase of the mids since they play to 5.5khz?). Pulling the tweeters out of the doors and placing them on the dash at various angles did not help either. Interestingly, pulling out the tweets and letting them (gently) dangle pointed towards the floor helped more than anything. Of course, this is not a viable option. As a reminder, I listen to mostly electronic/house music which tends to be bright, quick, and loud. The songs are 320kbps MP3s (not perfect, but unfortunately the best available for this type of music). However, with that being said, the harshness was never an issue with my older DLS MS6a set.

Ideally I would like to stick with running them passive, but if you think a different (larger?) tweeter would help, or higher/lower crossover points, I can work on switching over to active and try that. I haven't done that yet because I am doubtful that simply attenuating the tweeter volume will solve the problem (because I believe the EQing I have done so far roughly mimics tweeter attentuation).

Any guidance you can provide would be great. I REALLY want to like these speakers especially since the mids sound fantastic, but I can't really bear to listen to them the way they are right now. If you prefer, I am available on the phone in the evenings after 5pm and all weekend.

Thanks,

Hari

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[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Try aiming them more off axis. Try cutting at about 7khz on your EQ.

Kind of sounds like phase interference though; so,try flipping the phase on both midbass drivers.

 

[Imtjnotu 5,000+ posts]

I am not having this problem with my c61-2 right now and also have my tweets set at -3 on the cross but then again on my graphic eq bands 5-7have all been lowered to minus 3

 

[hari-bhari 10+ year member]

I am not having this problem with my c61-2 right now and also have my tweets set at -3 on the cross but then again on my graphic eq bands 5-7have all been lowered to minus 3

where are your tweets and mids mounted? mine are in the door facing pretty much straight into the cabin.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Diffraction can cause harsh sounding tweeters, as can aiming at glass or near glass.

Swapping phase on the teepee terms is preferred over changing midbass.

 

[hari-bhari 10+ year member]

how do you eliminate diffraction?

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Diffraction is controlled by mounting. Pics of your install?

 

[hari-bhari 10+ year member]

The mids and tweets are currently mounted in the stock locations. Doors have been deadened with raammat on inner and outer doors skins, and mids are mounted on MDF rings with clay used as a vibration isolator between speaker/ring and ring/door. Here is a picture of the factory locations.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

so it's a 99-01 Camry? i own an 02 Camry and had a 98 Camry - and it looks to be between those years.

i never liked that tweeter location on a car. so i never reuse it.

i played with a Clarus set for a few months. In the wrong application - the speakers don't sound good at all. in the right application - they sound great.

additionally, it's usually tough to get good sound when putting a tweeter behind a stock grill. how did you get the tweeter to seal?

you could try not reusing the factory grills but flush mounting the Clarus grills.

play around with other locations - try to get the same distance between you and each driver.

also, ensure you got polarity correct at the crossovers. mixing that up can cause harsh sounding highs.

 

[Imtjnotu 5,000+ posts]

i have my tweets on the dash facing directly at the driver and passenger

also Hope i kno that HAT said the Woofers were made for IB but how would they do sealed up? did u try them sealed up ?

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i liked them in an enclosure much more than in true IB (sound board). a sealed up door was fine.

 

[maylar 10+ year member]

i never liked that tweeter location on a car. so i never reuse it.

Why is that?

i played with a Clarus set for a few months. In the wrong application - the speakers don't sound good at all. in the right application - they sound great.

What's the "wrong" application?

Just being curious here, because this is very similar to my install.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Why is that?

my impressions of listening to upper door tweeter locations:

I don't like the height, i don't like the IID

I do like stage width

What's the "wrong" application?
Just being curious here, because this is very similar to my install.

I found the Clarus performed much better when sealed. night and day difference compared to IB. a sealed door helps, but a sealed enclosure is king.

I also found that in some locations, the tweeters were harsh, in others they were not. a lot of it comes down to location and aiming - same with any tweeter.

 

[FlexnInLa 10+ year member]

Hari,

Any luck with the tweeters?

 

[hari-bhari 10+ year member]

sorry for the delay guys, and thanks for all the responses.

I ended up running active

HPF: 63hz @ 24db for the mids

HPF/LPF at 5.9khz for the mids/tweets (can't tell the difference between anything in the 5k-6k range, so I just picked something)

I kept the tweeters in the stock locations for simplicity, have the gain at around -6dB compared to the mids, and aimed them upwards and forwards, rather than at the passengers. This has helped a lot and they are beginning to sound great. I've also increased the 60 and 120hz bands on my EQ by about 6db to improve midbass response (this may be due to my installation, I will start another thread). Here are some pics (they have been pointed more front/up since then).