How is it legal for amp manufacturers to lie?

[CplCuddles]

I don't understand why people don't sue them. Planet audio for instance has a 3000 watt amp the AC3000.1d. it claims 2250W@1ohm, but is fused at 60amps I believe. It is literally unobtainable, 14.4V*60A=864W at maximum. I could see if maybe it achieved this for a split second and they marked it as the max rating. Which it never could even see 1000W on it's best day and they claim RMS ratings well above 1000W. How is this legal?

I'm not saying all of them do, just the ones that do lie about it.

They are a blight on our community, all these unknowers go and spend their hard earned money on these pos amps instead of supporting the respectable companys that deserve to be supported. It makes me salty.

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[Boominburban]

IDK, start a class action law suit ....

 

[dragon.breath 10+ year member]

They can get away with it because their is no standardized rating method. You can get huge wattage numbers out of a cheap amplifier using something like the PMPO method. That basically is spiking the amp by putting as much battery voltage as possible (like 24 volts ), wiring the speaker outputs at as low a ohm as possible and playing a square wave. Then measuring the spike of power from the amplifier in the split second before the amplifier either dies or the protection circuits shut it down.

I remember several years ago, a car audio magazine tested a 1000 watt rms Rockford amplifier using PMPO too make a point. It made 27,000 Watts.

 

[350zspl 10+ year member]

RMS

Maximum

Dynamic

 

[kcr357 10+ year member]

That planet audio will hit 3k all day no problem.

*if you plug it into 120v

*and by "all day no problem", it means for half a second then big problems.

 

[shredder2]

it's marketing

 

[CplCuddles]

They can get away with it because their is no standardized rating method. You can get huge wattage numbers out of a cheap amplifier using something like the PMPO method. That basically is spiking the amp by putting as much battery voltage as possible (like 24 volts ), wiring the speaker outputs at as low a ohm as possible and playing a square wave. Then measuring the spike of power from the amplifier in the split second before the amplifier either dies or the protection circuits shut it down.I remember several years ago, a car audio magazine tested a 1000 watt rms Rockford amplifier using PMPO too make a point. It made 27,000 Watts.

That is some serious sketch @$$ $H|T, There needs to be some legal regulations on this stuff.

That planet audio will hit 3k all day no problem.


*if you plug it into 120v

*and by "all day no problem", it means for half a second then big problems.

Made me Lol, Made my day.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

This is why there have been attempts to have a standard rating method, like CEA compliance.

It's not just car manufacturers. Since the 80's, home receiver manufacturers have been able to claim 100Wx5 if only one channel is capable of 100W for 1 second at whatever THD they want to use. So in theory, any of the channels can hit 100W, just not simultaneously. The UL wattage draw is a legal listing, and a good indication of what a home receiver is actually capable of.

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. Cheap power can be found, but at the sacrifice of longevity and build quality. When looking at the cheap amps with max power ratings, just ignore them and use common sense. You can still get a 1kW amp for $100, which isn't terrible, even if the amp has 3k-4k printed on it.

 

[bigblank69 10+ year member]

This is why there have been attempts to have a standard rating method, like CEA compliance.
It's not just car manufacturers. Since the 80's, home receiver manufacturers have been able to claim 100Wx5 if only one channel is capable of 100W for 1 second at whatever THD they want to use. So in theory, any of the channels can hit 100W, just not simultaneously. The UL wattage draw is a legal listing, and a good indication of what a home receiver is actually capable of.

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. Cheap power can be found, but at the sacrifice of longevity and build quality. When looking at the cheap amps with max power ratings, just ignore them and use common sense. You can still get a 1kW amp for $100, which isn't terrible, even if the amp has 3k-4k printed on it.

One of the the reasons I don't use Home Theater Receivers. I use an AV pre-pro and external amps for home audio

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

CEA compliant is only for 4 ohms....I think.

 

[Lbetts818]

I don't understand why people don't sue them. Planet audio for instance has a 3000 watt amp the AC3000.1d. it claims 2250W@1ohm, but is fused at 60amps I believe. It is literally unobtainable, 14.4V*60A=864W at maximum. I could see if maybe it achieved this for a split second and they marked it as the max rating. Which it never could even see 1000W on it's best day and they claim RMS ratings well above 1000W. How is this legal?
I'm not saying all of them do, just the ones that do lie about i

They are a blight on our community, all these unknowers go and spend their hard earned money on these pos amps instead of supporting the respectable companys that deserve to be supported. It makes me salty.

It's kinda like anything pharmasutical. Saw something the other day for viagra(listen up gramps) and said symptoms may include rectal bleeding,temporary blindness, or even death!!! So you'll potentially you could die with a hard on while bleeding out you ol sphincter there while you go blind. Now that would be news worthy. At the end of the day people are sheep and if hifonics can sell amps all day and people keep buying them and they are making 70% profit after overhead by using a inferior product why would they stop? Wrong? Yup. But as a great man said that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

if you think amp ratings are wrong, try arguing how to rate power on speakers accurately.

That's virtually impossible since the song/source itself can/will alter the projected power being sent to speaker.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

making 70% profit after overhead.

Absolutely nobody is making anything close to this. The barrier for entry is virtually nothing to call up China and order 1000 cheap off-the-shelf amps. In fact, I'd wager that re-badging and selling any Chinese electronics is a very thin profit margin. The companies that do make high margin are the snobophile companies (think Critical Mass).

if you think amp ratings are wrong, try arguing how to rate power on speakers accurately.

50hz sine wave continuous for half an hour. Of course if it'll survive half an hour it'll do it indefinitely, but still. That's IMO honest. And if you don't think people play basically straight sine waves for minutes on end you haven't been paying attention to what passes for "music" and what people do to show off for their buddies or the neighbors.

From there we can argue that lower frequency gives a little more due to the cooling of cone movement but I suspect the difference is relatively small within the usable bandwidth of a subwoofer.

 

[THATpurpleKUSH 5,000+ posts]

CEA compliant is only for 4 ohms....I think.

Correct, 14.4v power source, 4 ohms and no more than 1% thd. There is no specified frequency at which the readings are taken at.

 

[Lbetts818]

Absolutely nobody is making anything close to this. The barrier for entry is virtually nothing to call up China and order 1000 cheap off-the-shelf amps. In fact, I'd wager that re-badging and selling any Chinese electronics is a very thin profit margin. The companies that do make high margin are the snobophile companies (think Critical Mass).


50hz sine wave continuous for half an hour. Of course if it'll survive half an hour it'll do it indefinitely, but still. That's IMO honest. And if you don't think people play basically straight sine waves for minutes on end you haven't been paying attention to what passes for "music" and what people do to show off for their buddies or the neighbors.

From there we can argue that lower frequency gives a little more due to the cooling of cone movement but I suspect the difference is relatively small within the usable bandwidth of a subwoofer.

Absolutley they are not making that much i was just making the point they are getting dirt cheap containers of amps from china and making decent profit on them and selling tons. at a low price point they are still doing pretty well I'd think