How exactly do you bi amp passive components??

[Jakerrr 10+ year member]

I just got my HSK 165's. Unable to get to them right now but this is what the crossover looks like:

http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/HSK165_prosp.jpg

+in- +wf- +tw- are what the 6 input things / leads say. I know to use these passive components the standard way you connect the speaker wire from amp to the "in" leads and then connect the speakers with their respective leads. I was thinking maybe the x-over had separate inputs for tw and wf but it doesn't. So how do I give each of the 4 speakers in this set their own channel so I can use the digital time alignment feature more effectively and get more level control over my speakers? I know bridging is generally said to be preferable because you get more power and head room, but I'll have plenty either way, so I'd rather bi-amp. These speakers are rated at 125 watts rms and if I bridge my amp I'll have 450x2, and I'll still have 145x4 using all 4 channels.

So how exactly do you bi amp with passive components? I'm not planning on running active just yet. Could someone maybe explain how I go about bi-amping so I have each channel powering it's own speaker?

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[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

bi amp means running 2 amps...

 

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

 

bi amp means running 2 amps...

bi amping componets is running the tweeters on one amp and the mids on one amp or splitting a 4ch amp

 

[Jakerrr 10+ year member]

bi amp means running 2 amps...

It can also mean using 1 channel for each speaker though. Sure you can use 2 2 channel amps but 1 4 channel is capable of bi-amping as well. I'm just wondering how I do it.

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

It can also mean using 1 channel for each speaker though. Sure you can use 2 2 channel amps but 1 4 channel is capable of bi-amping as well. I'm just wondering how I do it.

I prefer an active crossover ...that way you can band pass the mids ,...say 6.5s from 80-3500hz...and the tweeters say 3500hz...and get cleaner sound...do away with power robbing passive coils and caps..

 

[Jakerrr 10+ year member]

I prefer an active crossover ...that way you can band pass the mids ,...say 6.5s from 80-3500hz...and the tweeters say 3500hz...and get cleaner sound...do away with power robbing passive coils and caps..

Lol if I was gonna do that I would've just bought $200 worth of pro audio stuff but I spent $400 on these so I wouldn't have to mess around with active considering I don't have a DSP. Doesn't the crossover help balance the top end of the woofer and the low end of the tweeter among other things? I was advised against running active without a DSP or active x-over HU like 80PRS. Would simply using the x-over on the amp work?

My main question is this: I prefer to use 1 channel per speaker and still use the passive Hertz crossovers. How do I do this when there is only 1 input on each crossover?

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

Lol if I was gonna do that I would've just bought $200 worth of pro audio stuff but I spent $400 on these so I wouldn't have to mess around with active considering I don't have a DSP. Doesn't the crossover help balance the top end of the woofer and the low end of the tweeter among other things? I was advised against running active without a DSP or active x-over HU like 80PRS. Would simply using the x-over on the amp work?
My main question is this: I prefer to use 1 channel per speaker and still use the passive Hertz crossovers. How do I do this when there is only 1 input on each crossover?

most amps can't be band passed ...some high end amps this is possible....

 

[Jakerrr 10+ year member]

I prefer an active crossover ...that way you can band pass the mids ,...say 6.5s from 80-3500hz...and the tweeters say 3500hz...and get cleaner sound...do away with power robbing passive coils and caps..

Please someone tell me if this is the way to do it. This is the only thing I can think of that seems possible. I see no other way but this seems weird:

(for the left passive Hertz crossover, similar will be done to right)

step1)Wire to the only power input leads on the x-over, but have 2 (left) channels running to this 1 input instead of 1

step2)Use the amp's crossover to set the LPF frequency of 1 channel to the same x-over freq as tweeter/woofer (for instance 3500hz), and the HPF of the 2nd channel at same frequency and basically designate it the "tweeter channel"

Does that sound remotely correct?

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

bi amp means running 2 amps... 

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

 

bi amping componets is running the tweeters on one amp and the mids on one amp or splitting a 4ch amp

wut

no, in this case it means you have a passive crossover with two inputs. one +- for woofers, one +- for tweets.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

OP, you CANNOT bi-amp these speakers without ditching the passive crossovers - period.

you will have to ditch the x-over and run each woofer directly to its own channel on the amp.

woofers NEED to be bandpassed, and tweeters NEED to be HPF'd

you cannot wire two channels of the amp to the same passive crossover inputs without problems

you dont need a high end amp for this capability, ppi900.4's have it and they're cheap. an even cheaper way is to use an external crossover if you can find one with a BPF and a HPF that goes up to ~5khz..

This is a bi-ampable crossover, notice how it has 8 inputs, there's two +-'s for INPUT, not one.

http://www.cdtaudio.com/sep_components/crossovers/mx1000sx.htm

 

[Jakerrr 10+ year member]

OP, you CANNOT bi-amp these speakers without ditching the passive crossovers - period.
you will have to ditch the x-over and run each woofer directly to its own channel on the amp.

woofers NEED to be bandpassed, and tweeters NEED to be HPF'd

you cannot wire two channels of the amp to the same passive crossover inputs without problems

you dont need a high end amp for this capability, ppi900.4's have it and they're cheap. an even cheaper way is to use an external crossover if you can find one with a BPF and a HPF that goes up to ~5khz..

This is a bi-ampable crossover, notice how it has 8 inputs, there's two +-'s for INPUT, not one.

CDT Audio MX-1000SX

Ok yeah I see now. I thought something was up with only 1 input. I thought these would come with 2. I guess I'll just be bridging then. I have the ppi900.4 though... Would just running active be preferable then? Even with only this amp and KDC-X998? It has time alignment but no active crossover on the HU. I guess that's what the ppi900.4 is for

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Ok yeah I see now. I thought something was up with only 1 input. I thought these would come with 2. I guess I'll just be bridging then. I have the ppi900.4 though... Would just running active be preferable then? Even with only this amp and KDC-X998? It has time alignment but no active crossover on the HU. I guess that's what the ppi900.4 is for

yes, i would run the speakers active if you want to take advantage of TA. the ppi900.4 will let you BPF the mids and HPF the tweets. there's a x10 switch you'll need to remember to select for some of the filters

it's a bit complicated looking at the amps knobs so take your time when you're setting it. you ideally want the HPF for the mids at 80-120hz and the LPF at 2-5khz depending on how the woofers handle high frequencies.

the tweets only need to be HPF'd at 2-5khz - also depending on what sounds best. careful with the gain on the tweeters, they dont need much power to get loud or to blow as im sure you're already aware

glad to help //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsupwink.gif.129404938effda6ad9cca39e7f4b58a3.gif

 

[Jakerrr 10+ year member]

yes, i would run the speakers active if you want to take advantage of TA. the ppi900.4 will let you BPF the mids and HPF the tweets. there's a x10 switch you'll need to remember to select for some of the filters
it's a bit complicated looking at the amps knobs so take your time when you're setting it. you ideally want the HPF for the mids at 80-120hz and the LPF at 2-5khz depending on how the woofers handle high frequencies.

the tweets only need to be HPF'd at 2-5khz - also depending on what sounds best. careful with the gain on the tweeters, they dont need much power to get loud or to blow as im sure you're already aware

glad to help //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsupwink.gif.129404938effda6ad9cca39e7f4b58a3.gif

Thanks. Yeahs it's just that I was advised to not go active without a dsp or at least an 80prs so I just got components, but I could have spent less than half the money for way better stuff by just going active to begin with in the way you're saying, with just the crossovers on the amp. I brought up that option and people said it was just one small step into going active and it was a half ***'d attempt and only partially complete method of doing so, and that some high quality comps would be better. Oh well I'll see how these turn out this weekend. I have a feeling 900 watts on mids and highs will screaaam even with passive crossovers though... Won't give em quite that much. What do you think would be good power for these 125wrms rated comps? 200 watts a side?

 

[shauncox26]

Bridge your amp and set gains to lowest setting. I have a similar power rating for my amp and I run it on my passive PhD mf6.3 components and it pushes them hard with the gain all the way down. I have a three way front. Twt, mid, midbass and it leaves loads of headroom left for the musical peaks.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Thanks. Yeahs it's just that I was advised to not go active without a dsp or at least an 80prs so I just got components, but I could have spent less than half the money for way better stuff by just going active to begin with in the way you're saying, with just the crossovers on the amp. I brought up that option and people said it was just one small step into going active and it was a half ***'d attempt and only partially complete method of doing so, and that some high quality comps would be better. Oh well I'll see how these turn out this weekend. I have a feeling 900 watts on mids and highs will screaaam even with passive crossovers though... Won't give em quite that much. What do you think would be good power for these 125wrms rated comps? 200 watts a side?

if you can set it clean with an oscope id set it to about 150w rms or even 200w but set the hpf a little higher

 

[Jakerrr 10+ year member]

if you can set it clean with an oscope id set it to about 150w rms or even 200w but set the hpf a little higher

Will check tomorrow where I set the gain, it's pretty low, but I have a feeling they're getting at least 200w a side. I mean, they are deafeningly loud.