Hey you evolutionists...

[DidUHearThat? 10+ year member]

God hates stupid people. When judgement comes those who rejected science and logic will be sent to hell. God gave you a brain. Use it... or else!

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

Holocaust deniers can simply be pointed to mass graves, concentration camps, photos, etc. Fairy lovers can be asked why it would be logical to believe fairies existed.
You ask for reproducible, empirical data as your evidence, yet humanity has no way of providing empirical data for everything (in actuality, very few things) in the Universe, let alone outside of it, and since the God I believe in transcends this Universe, there is no reason to assume that my God should be detectable/traceable by reproducible, empirical data. The fact that my God is a person further complicates demands for reproducible, empirical data.

Here's a hypothetical situation: Let us say that I am an extremely wealthy, well connected person and you're an average joe whom I have just met outside the coffee shop. We don't exchange names or any other info, but have a conversation about coffee cup lids. You tell the story to a scientist friend of yours and he demands that you provide reproducible, empirical evidence that I exist. You begin your search, but I am in hiding, using my wealth and status to conceal my very existence to anyone who isn't looking for me, or who says they want to find me, but who's desire is only superficial. How would you go about obtaining reproducible, empirical evidence in such a case?

This is a very poor analogy. Religious people are making claims about the way the world is and will be. Claims that are dividing the world into competing religious sects that inevitably clash. Claims like contraception is sinful, which puts us in a situation where christian ministers in sub-saharan Africa, where 2-3million people die a year from aids, are teaching the evils of condom use where people's only information about condom use is what they hear from the ministers. Or how about the claims about stem cell research being evil. Somehow this research that has the promise of curing the scarcely bearably suffering of millions of people is evil because destroying a microscopic cluster of 100 cells is the equivalent of killing a newborn baby.

Why is god hiding from us as the wealthy person in your analogy is? Especially when our salvation is dependent on our ability to believe in him? This seems like a very very strange situation to me, and not descriptive of exactly what i would call a 'just' god.

I can make the exact same arguments you are making for my belief in the existence of a celestial teapot.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time. --Bertrand Russell

Also, I find it quite odd that atheists have little to no respect for the good that religion, especially Christianity, has done for humanity. Where do you think the morals/laws that keep people from murdering and stealing from one another came from? Do you really believe that such morals/laws do harm to humanity?

So according to you people were completely immoral, murdering and stealing from each other, before Christianity? That's a laughable proposition. While Elijah was slaughtering the prophets of baal for their wayward beliefs (so much for religious freedom) in India Mahavira was teaching true doctrines of nonviolence in which it is wrong to kill any living being. And he did it all without orders from any omniscient dictator.

There are obvious evolutionary explanations for why a species as gregarious as our own would develop strong relationship bonds and codes of ethics for how to treat each other.

I'm not saying that religion has never done anything good. One major point though, is that all the good we get from religion can be had WITHOUT religion.

Frankly, the majority of the posts I have seen in this thread are skeptical in nature. I think that atheists are definitely allowed to be skeptical, and, it must be noted, that the only reason they are allowed to do so is that this country is founded upon Christian morals that hold that you have certain rights that are inalienable, ie. freedom of religion (or lack thereof //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif), and freedom of speech.

Please provide some proof of your claim that 1rst amendment rights were inspired by Christianity. I think if you look at history you will see that the laws of the christian american colonies(Massachusetts bay colony for example) were quite a bit different than the ones put in our secular constitution a hundred years later.

Now, as much as you want yoke all religious people together, it is unfair to do so. When was the last time a group of American Christians got together because they are Christians who hate Muslims, and decided to act upon that hatred? And what if you were in the position of a Jew, having rockets fired into your backyard? The situation is much more complicated than your broad paintbrush acknowledges.

Would rockets be flying into Israel if Judaism and Islam didn't exist? Would that conflict have ever been able to start up if there weren't these differing religious ideas to separate people? Happily most Christians are not practicing the religion that there ancestors were just a few hundred years ago. But their dogmatism is still causing harm (stem cell research, contraception, homosexual bigotry, blocking evolution in schools, etc). Also, its worth noting that there certainly are still many aggresive and dangerious Christians in the western world (christian dominionists, or christian reconstructionists).

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

The thing about the analogy of the wealthy man is that it is just plain wrong, and misses the point.

A wealthy man would still leave evidence of his existence that, if possessed by one person, can be replicated before another. The fact that he is hiding his existence from you personally does not mean that the evidence can never be presented before you. On the other hand, your argument from personal experience suggests evidence that can never be shared with another person: it exists in the mind only. We are comparing two fundamentally different things: a material being (the wealthy man), and a supposed non-material entity (god).

The US was established with liberal morales, and the founders preferred a deist god (and occasionally spoke out specifically against organized Christianity). Many of the moral claims in Christianity are specifically protected against in the US constitution. Aside from being historically inaccurate, you are also evidently unfamiliar with the anthropology of morality, which has shown that a few particular virtues (like humanity, justice, wisdom) are found in almost all cultures and religions.

I won't touch on evolutionary psychology but a study of anthropology will at least get you thinking about it.

 

[xX J Brutal Xx 10+ year member]

Also, I find it quite odd that atheists have little to no respect for the good that religion, especially Christianity, has done for humanity. Where do you think the morals/laws that keep people from murdering and stealing from one another came from? Do you really believe that such morals/laws do harm to humanity?

Oh are these the same Christians that used to burn people at the stake cuz they "thought" they were Witches?? lol

Or are they the same Christians that uses to stone woman to death because they got knocked up out of wedlock or they had an affair?

Or are they the same Christians who's priests like to touch little boys?

Or are they the same Christians who gun down doctors in cold blood or bomb clinics? hey were Pro Life! so lets go murder some living humans to save an unborn ***** that probably would have had a shitty life anyway

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Here's a hypothetical situation: Let us say that I am an extremely wealthy, well connected person and you're an average joe whom I have just met outside the coffee shop. We don't exchange names or any other info, but have a conversation about coffee cup lids. You tell the story to a scientist friend of yours and he demands that you provide reproducible, empirical evidence that I exist. You begin your search, but I am in hiding, using my wealth and status to conceal my very existence to anyone who isn't looking for me, or who says they want to find me, but who's desire is only superficial. How would you go about obtaining reproducible, empirical evidence in such a case?

Also, I find it quite odd that atheists have little to no respect for the good that religion, especially Christianity, has done for humanity. Where do you think the morals/laws that keep people from murdering and stealing from one another came from? Do you really believe that such morals/laws do harm to humanity?

1. You could take a photograph.

2. You know see that's up to you to provide evidence your wealthy friend existed.

----

1. I'd be willing to wager more people have died because of Christianity than have been allowed to live. You ever hear of the Crusades?

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

Quite an interesting video, worth watching:

 





 

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[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

I want to give a shotout to DevilDriver, PerfecxionX, Fast1One, squeak9798, and all the other OGs for keeping it real! You motherfuckers are rollin' hard. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Burden of proof is on those who say God is real, so prove it with emperical evidence. Prove to me that beyond a shadow of a doubt God is real and why its the God you believe in.

Go.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I want to give a shotout to DevilDriver, PerfecxionX, Fast1One, squeak9798, and all the other OGs for keeping it real! You motherfuckers are rollin' hard. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
Burden of proof is on those who say God is real, so prove it with emperical evidence. Prove to me that beyond a shadow of a doubt God is real and why its the God you believe in.

Go.

Nobody cares that much. Believe or not believe. I don't give a shit. You can go fuck yourself waiting for me to prove anything to you.

I bet $100 to $1 that I kind find a shit ton of irrational things you do....Why do you take such an antagonistic approach when it comes to religion. Like your irrationality is okay...because you can rationalize it. Their irrationality is not okay because you cannot rationalize it.

Explain to me how your interest in car audio and the countless thousands you have wasted is the highest and best use of your money and that no other investment or asset allocation would have nor could have provided a higher return on satisfaction. Let's see your empiracle proof you heartless jackass? I doubt your mind of copy and paste off the internets could provide ME with anything but a reasonable argument. Hell, you can't even make a god damn decision with what you want to do with that worthless POS van. Yet, you say it's a fun hobby. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

PS: New sig. Sweet quote.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

You can feel free to point out anything irrational I do, and we'll gladly debate it. If I have a sacred cow, I would like you to show me how to sacrifice it. If I'm thinking without reason, do me the honour of introducing some to me. I would prefer to know where I am wrong, and correct myself (or be corrected), rather than carry on being wrong.

Of course, it is not as simple as saying "You're wrong!", but I'm always open to it.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

You can feel free to point out anything irrational I do, and we'll gladly debate it. If I have a sacred cow, I would like you to show me how to sacrifice it. If I'm thinking without reason, do me the honour of introducing some to me. I would prefer to know where I am wrong, and correct myself (or be corrected), rather than carry on being wrong.
Of course, it is not as simple as saying "You're wrong!", but I'm always open to it.

You aren't galactic monkey. However, we could debate on your marijuana use/abuse is the highest and best use of your time and money.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Well, I do wonder why you conjure up images of abuse, or that there is any considerable time or money spent on it, especially relative to my income.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Well, I do wonder why you conjure up images of abuse, or that there is any considerable time or money spent on it, especially relative to my income.

Doesn't matter. If you don't spend every second and every cent on the highest and best use, you aren't being rational.

Yes, it get's to be a bit ridiculous...but being antagonistic about those who believe in God to provide irrefutable proof is silly as well. However, this street runs both ways. I equally dislike those who push religion as much as I do those who push against it. You spend all this time railing against religion when you aren't spending similar effort on your spending habits, career goals, personal goals, etc.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

What makes you think that ending religion is not a career or personal goal?

You're choosing to define what is valuable and what is not in a seemingly arbitrary way.

My cumulative time in this thread arguing about religion is extraordinarily trivial compared to the time I have taken to understand it, which was the ultimate goal in the first place. Even if I can do something as simple as dissuade another person from logical fallacies, the time it takes is really quite insignificant, and yet it can be very easily argued that, even if I did spend a great deal of time for something that could actually better society, I did not waste a minute.

Regardless, the bulk of my time is not spent arguing on the internet against religion.

Let's also keep in mind the topic of the thread. If someone posted a thread about how you shouldn't give your kids vaccines, I would be posting just as much in there, but there is a definite lack of antagonists for the few other discussions of intellect on this site.

 

[Pootie 10+ year member]

Choices always were a problem for you.

What you need is someone strong to guide you.

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,

What you need is someone strong to use you..

Like me,

Like me.

If you want to get your soul to heaven,

Trust in me .

Dont judge or question.

You are broken now ,

But faith can heal you.

Just do everything I tell you to do.

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.

Let me lay my holy hand upon you.

My gods will

Becomes me.

When he speaks out,

He speaks through me.

He has needs

Like I do.

We both want

To **** you.

Jesus christ, why dont you come save my life.

Open my eyes and blind me with your light

And your lies.