hey republicans

[double 07 10+ year member]

Husker I wish I had all of the answers but in my opinion the average American worker is why we don't have some of our jobs that we used to have.....Let me explain why I say that..My grandfather raised 9 kids while working his lifetime at a carpet mill and when my mother became of working age she went to work at the same plant and worked there for almost 20 yrs until the plant closed...Not sure why it closed but it did....Anyway when she lost her job she wasn't even making $8 an hour yet and in ALL of the years that her and my grandpa worked there they NEVER complained about the pay they received or the swing shift hours they worked...They were just thankful to have a freaking job....Where did this mentality go among the American worker?.....Most Americans (not all) have gotten so LAZY, GREEDY, and UNAPPRECIATIVE of the opportunity they have to live in a FREE society where they can prosper...They want TOP WAGES and get to come in at 8:15 and leave at 4:25 but get paid for the full day......I also think LABOR UNIONS have contributed to this problem as well and before somebody says that I am a labor hater let me explain...Labor unions have done some good things for workers but lets face it through out the years they have done way more harm than good with their demands at times and driven their OWN jobs out of the state or even the country...Look at the BOEING situation that happened last year apparently they didn't want anymore jobs in Washington State after all because the Union drove that plant to SC I believe it was.....Just today in the news I heard that Hostess fired 650 Union workers because they were threatening to strike while Hostess is trying to recover inside a Chapter 11...Hostess warned them that if they can't make products at those facilities then they will close them...They went on strike and now they have no jobs .....Now who is at fault there?......Cocky worker or struggling business.....Let's play with a scenario.......What would happen if all of the AUTO manufacturers right here in the US announced that they would open up 200 new plants nationwide, train and put people to work but you couldn't form a union and the pay would start at $10 or so........I can almost guarantee you most of the American workers (not all of them) would tell them what they could do with those jobs........

That's just one man's opinion and you know what they say about those.........I think we kinda costs ourselves our own jobs with our GREED, LAZINESS, and ARROGANCE........but I may be wrong

 

[Ignatowski 5,000+ posts]

I don't dispute any of those points. That's what I'm saying, what are people going to do? All I hear is the jobs aren't coming back, we need to educate the work force to do skilled jobs, but what skilled jobs? I just don't see a demand if you don't have manufacturing to drive it. I honestly am beginning to believe we will be a honest to God 3rd world country before long, the economy can't support itself the direction it is going.

Bull...The jobs were lost under Clinton forever and to say that they are bad jobs or low paying jobs

is pure democratic snobbery..Hard work at any level is respectable ,mopping the floors or working on a circuit board......We fucked up as a nation when we signed NAFTA and gave away the farm...

This is the USA,broke and un unemployed we will never be what we once was and thats our own

fault - I am 45 years old,I remember seeing all the imports roll in to the USA in the 90s and I said to myself ,wow this is crazy and why are we doing this to ourselves

MFGing is the reason we were great......Now its why China is great

 

[husker77 10+ year member]

I agree with both of you on pretty much all accounts. Also no one gets a free pass in my book. Republicans, democrats or the American people. I believe Ross Perot warned us about NAFTA. We buy based on price, so we put our father, brother or neighbor out of work. The worker is lazy, doesn't do his job right so quality goes down. The corporation makes large profits, but cuts health care or doesn't give raises so that the top few or shareholders can make more money. Unfortunately there is plenty of blame to go around.

I just wonder if any countries will give us foreign aid when we are the ones starving in the streets?

 

[husker77 10+ year member]

That's just one man's opinion and you know what they say about those.........I think we kinda costs ourselves our own jobs with our GREED, LAZINESS, and ARROGANCE........but I may be wrong

No I think you are pretty much right on.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

You say that history proves how higher or lower taxes will affect our economy today, but again your proof is a chart that implies a direct correlation between tax rates and the strength of the economy, while completely ignoring every other factor that affects economic strength. I provided a few examples, as has flipx.
You are correct that neither party practices their extremist views (true socialism or true capitalism), but they both lean one way or the other, while claiming the other side leans too far in their direction. Of course you, as a liberal, think democrats are centered. Just like a republican thinks they are centered. But that's irrelevant, as my comment on someone being an extremist wasn't towards democrats, it was towards you specifically. 2 years ago you thought that taxing all income over a million dollars at a 90% tax rate was fair. At least you've made some progress since then.

This is why it's impossible to have a discussion with you. I'm explicitly telling you my argument is that tax rates (for the rich) do NOT have a direct correlation with the strength of the economy. But then, you completely ignore what I say and instead, tell me what my argument is (and that it's the complete opposite of my argument, no less). You're really good at agreeing with people, but you just can't hold a logical conversation without resorting to straw man or ad hominem.

And no, the Democrats are logically and empirically in the center of the discussion. They view government as a viable vehicle to solve societies problems but still want a capitalist economy. That is a centrist, logical view to have. It is not extreme. Republicans, however, actively deny that the government has ANY role in the economy, and that is an extreme right position. I'm sure you hate using your own logic against you, but this is just fact. If pure socialism is on the left and pure capitalism is on the right, the Democrats are in the center and Republicans are closer to extreme right than the center.

And sorry, I still think it's fair, morally speaking. No one needs that much money, especially when it can be used to help people who make barely 3% of that. Is that to say I'd support an actual policy for such an extreme position? No. 50%? Maybe.

 

[thevic24 5,000+ posts]

"And no, the Democrats are logically and empirically in the center of the discussion."

Really? Really?

Hey Pot...

"This is why it's impossible to have a discussion with you"

"Republicans, however, actively deny that the government has ANY role in the economy, and that is an extreme right position."

You are just as black as the kettle is.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

That, in its self, is an extremist view

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

Someone in this thread has a SERIOUS greed problem and it's damn sure not the wealthy that are being discussed...........WOW!!!!!.........GOD please help our country by re-locating some of these people to ******* Cuba.......Thank you Lord.....

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

This is why it's impossible to have a discussion with you. I'm explicitly telling you my argument is that tax rates (for the rich) do NOT have a direct correlation with the strength of the economy. But then, you completely ignore what I say and instead, tell me what my argument is (and that it's the complete opposite of my argument, no less). You're really good at agreeing with people, but you just can't hold a logical conversation without resorting to straw man or ad hominem.
And no, the Democrats are logically and empirically in the center of the discussion. They view government as a viable vehicle to solve societies problems but still want a capitalist economy. That is a centrist, logical view to have. It is not extreme. Republicans, however, actively deny that the government has ANY role in the economy, and that is an extreme right position. I'm sure you hate using your own logic against you, but this is just fact. If pure socialism is on the left and pure capitalism is on the right, the Democrats are in the center and Republicans are closer to extreme right than the center.

And sorry, I still think it's fair, morally speaking. No one needs that much money, especially when it can be used to help people who make barely 3% of that. Is that to say I'd support an actual policy for such an extreme position? No. 50%? Maybe.

I do not find the republican party platform proclaiming the government does not have any role in the economy. The republican platform does want to eliminate regulations to make us equally competitive.

The question is, do we want to stoop to their (being Chinese manufacturers who ignore human rights, environmental concerns etc) level in order to compete?

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

really? Really?

GOOD ARGUMENT YOU'RE REALLY GOOD AT THIS

a

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

I do not find the republican party platform proclaiming the government does not have any role in the economy. The republican platform does want to eliminate regulations to make us equally competitive.

You're right, I exaggerated. But they still believe it's role is extremely minimal and want to remove or severely weaken activist policies that have been extremely successful and helpful to the average person.

 

[rebelfromva 10+ year member]

Anyone hear about the states petitioning to secede?

 

[husker77 10+ year member]

Ya but it's mostly fringe people, anyone can start a petition. It does show the lack of confidence in the future of this county though.

 

[gckless 5,000+ posts]

Anyone hear about the states petitioning to secede?

Yeah they did that yesterday? Maybe 2 days ago? Not going to actually happen, it's more of a statement. Last I checked Texas was the highest with around 22,000.

 

[oldschoolboomer 10+ year member]

Anybody seen "idiocracy"? That's what we are heading towards giving Obama a second term.

 

[Kingstroker 10+ year member]

Anybody seen "idiocracy"? That's what we are heading towards giving Obama a second term.

We're half way there! Not just because of Obumma, society blindly following elected leaders bear some responsibility also.