hey republicans

[double 07 10+ year member]

If FDR's policies were so horrible, how was the GDP growth the highest it's ever been, other than during WWII, right after he was elected?

And I already told you why unemployment shot up again in the ate 30s: it's because FDR ended the stimulus spending and tried to balance the budget because conservatives demanded it. It failed miserably, and he resumed it and it began to go down again. Notice how the deficit goes down to 0 right around when the unemployment shot up:

And you act like unemployment being at 14% isn't a huge improvement, unemployment was 25% when FDR was elected.

And "A lot of the money spent on the war was spent privately"? Um, who do you think was paying for all those tanks and planes? It was the Government. This stuff really isn't hard.

CUTE LITTLE CHARTS YOU HAVE THERE......

We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we ever have spent before and it does not work---Henry Morgenthau Jr.--Secretary of the Treasury for FDR...

Give it up Liberal even people inside his administration near the TOP knew it wasn't working.....Most economists agree that some of his policies did get people back to work and lower the unemployment some but it was still historically high for the time and all the money they spent did not come FREE.........That's the one thing you guys always leave out of your argument.......Money spent by the Government is not FREE it has to come from the people........

You guys go ahead and keep spending the American People's money like it has no end........Spending money that has 43 cents of EVERY dollar borrowed is a absolutely brilliant plan.......You guys have a problem with math don't ya?

And don't think for a minute that I am giving the Bush administration a PASS because I am not........And it was our current President that said Bush was unpatriotic for driving up the deficit like he did......Boy is that the pot calling the kettle black...No pun intended........If Bush was unpatriotic then what does all the spending make him........You realize he has added more debt on us than every president from Van Buren up to George Bush.........Sounds like a great plan........NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

Read up on the fair tax proposal from the biased site which is pushing for the fair tax (fairtax.org?). I shouldn't have to point out why this makes no sense. That is like Romney saying he was the better candidate while pointing to his own website as proof.

....when you decided to vote for Obama you are saying you went to Romneys site so he could tell why you should vote for Obama....no one said that you couldn't leave the fairtax site and look up the other side of it on the net.......I am trying to offer alternatives....I encourage you to read up on it on ALL sites related to it if you never have...I think with some tweaks to it it would be a lot better than our current clusterfuck of a tax system....It would be a lot simpler....It would help everyone and even the illegals here would be paying taxes instead of dodging the income tax like a lot of them do now...that alone would bring a lot more revenue to the table....wouldn't having your ENTIRE paycheck every week make your life a little better....I am sorry if I offended you by offering an alternative to the current system that everyone complains about.......

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

Our bracketed income tax structure could be said to discourage people from becoming rich (and hence spending more), which could also be said to discourage spending.

Yeah, and the Earth could be said to be the center of the universe, but that doesn't make it true. When you say that our current tax structure discourages people from becoming rich, you are actively affirming that paying 20% of $500,000 is worse than paying 0% of $50,000. Furthermore you're completely ignoring the fact that our society does in fact contain rich people and businesses and that taxes on the rich are much less than they used to be 50 years ago, but back then our economy was much stronger. That seems to imply the exact opposite logic you are using.

But I guess we've already been down this road.

but it was still historically high for the time

No shit, it was the GREAT DEPRESSION.

CUTE LITTLE CHARTS YOU HAVE THERE......

Wow, you mean the facts? Jesus christ, how much of a fucking idiot do you have to be to belittle facts?

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

Typical Liberal bullshit......I bring up the fact that a high ranking person inside FDR's admin says it wasn't working and I get called an Idiot.......you gotta love LIBERAL America........

Do any of you Liberals know the difference between EFFECTIVE tax and tax rate....when the higher tax rates were in place there were TONS of deductions that could be used so the EFFECTIVE tax ( tax actually paid) was way less than the tax rate itself.....the EFFECTIVE tax paid today is higher because a lot of those deductions were eliminated...........learn the difference between EFFECTIVE tax and TAX rate.....and at what point are the wealthy going to be taxed enough for you guys?......sounds like the wealthy aren't the freaking greedy ones after all....

It would better for the rest of us Americans if you Liberals would go live in Cuba cause all your hatred of our capitalistic system and bullshit way of fixing our economy would fit in better there.....

Http://taxfoundation.org/blog/chart-day-effective-tax-rates-income-category

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

It depends on what you are doing, accountant, sure get some courses at the local cc, nuclear physicists you might just want to stick to a university.

You can get general coursework done for most any degree at a community college.

True. But once again, there are benefits to beginning and ending your career at a single college. If you happen to save ten grand by attending CC for some generals, where does that amount land in the grand scheme of things?

It amounts to freedom when you graduate if you don't owe money.

If FDR's policies were so horrible, how was the GDP growth the highest it's ever been, other than during WWII, right after he was elected?

There is no doubt that increased government spending creates growth in the short run. I don't think you'll find anyone to argue with you there. My question is, "Can you sustain it" Can government spending create permanent growth? I don't believe it can. The charts you showed do not show permanent growth. A good chart (if you have the data, it's available from the st louis fed) to see if those two charts combined. Furthermore, there is only so much borrowing that can occur in that eventually, we run out of people to loan us money. I hate for our country's future to be based on the hope that someone will lend us money.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

Interesting FACT that was released today:

The Congressional Budget Office released their findings today that if the tax rates on the wealthy are raised back up to the levels of the Clinton administration like the Obama administration is wanting to do it will NOT LOWER the deficit by ONE DOLLAR.......It would only raise 824 billion over a 10 yr period......so I would like an INTELLIGENT reason for why raise taxes if it does NO GOOD.....if harm is all that will come from it...why do it?.....now these are facts from our CURRENT CBO not something I made up......now I say if with these facts from the CBO if anyone still wants the taxes raised the rich are NOT the ones with a problem with GREED......

Of course raising taxes on the wealthy was NEVER about lowering the deficit anyway was it?.......

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I guess it depends if the US has a goal of balancing the budget. Not in 50 years, but in 5. These 10 year budget impacts are worthless.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

I don't see why a 10 yr projection is a bad thing....if the budget wont balance in 10 yrs with those higher tax rates then its not going to balance in 5 yrs either....

My problem with the entire deal with both parties is they lie!!!!

They always promise to do SPENDING CUTS if we allow TAXES RAISED.....Do you want to take a guess at which one of these 2 things never happen?.....they raise taxes and double down on spending and BAM ....bigger deficit

You guys do know the definition of insanity right?...Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result......

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I don't see why a 10 yr projection is a bad thing....if the budget wont balance in 10 yrs with those higher tax rates then its not going to balance in 5 yrs either....

My problem with the entire deal with both parties is they lie!!!!

They always promise to do SPENDING CUTS if we allow TAXES RAISED.....Do you want to take a guess at which one of these 2 things never happen?.....they raise taxes and double down on spending and BAM ....bigger deficit

You guys do know the definition of insanity right?...Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result......

My line of business makes them. I add parts to the very ones being quoted here. The projections you are quoting are rolled up guesses from people like me. The revenue projections work in the same way. I can give you a really good estimate on 5 years. With those extra 5 years, the priorities of Congress change so much it's just very hard because so much changes.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

My line of business makes them. I add parts to the very ones being quoted here. The projections you are quoting are rolled up guesses from people like me. The revenue projections work in the same way. I can give you a really good estimate on 5 years. With those extra 5 years, the priorities of Congress change so much it's just very hard because so much changes.

That makes sense......thank you.......now do you agree about the spending cuts and that they never seem to happen and that adds to the deficit......43 cents of every dollar spent is borrowed......

My common sense meter is telling me if you raise taxes and spending you wind up in the same position regardless of how many years you do it.....

 

[groundpound4200 5,000+ posts]

Did you not also learn that if you bring cookies to class, that you have to bring enough for everyone? Maybe you forgot that concept.
That's one of the main concepts of social liberalism.

Ummm no. There's MAJOR flaw in your argument. I purposely didn't bring cookies to class and left them at home for after school because I knew the teacher would try to make me share. This is what will happen (and is happening) in the U.S. with large corporations. When they have to give up a large chunk of revenue just to play the game, they'll go elsewhere where restrictions aren't as bad. Why wouldn't they? What is their incentive to stay?

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

That makes sense......thank you.......now do you agree about the spending cuts and that they never seem to happen and that adds to the deficit......43 cents of every dollar spent is borrowed......

My common sense meter is telling me if you raise taxes and spending you wind up in the same position regardless of how many years you do it.....

Well, taxes do need to be raised, on everyone. There is no doubt there. It's not a R or D issue, it's a math problem. We'll never pay down the debt if we continue to borrow. The only way we can pay down the debt is through higher taxes.

With that said, here is congress's definition of a spending cut

"I have a broken widget. I think it will cost $200. I found one on sale for $150. I cut spending by $50"

vs.

We spent $150.

---

I hate a "reduction in planned spending" or better yet, a "reduction in then planned growth of spending" being referred to a spending cut.

It wouldn't be true for an American family so why is it true for government.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

There is one problem with raising taxes on EVERYONE......Everyone is NOT included in that number.......51% of our wage earners pay no income tax whatsoever......so in essence the other 49% is paying taxes for the entire 100........that plan sux....but you let the government come up with a plan for every wage earner to pay a little something and watch the revolution begin.......most of the electorate don't have a problem with higher taxes as long as it aint them.....lol

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

When I said raising the taxes on everyone, that is what I meant.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

When I said raising the taxes on everyone, that is what I meant.

You da man.........now you are speaking my language.....lets start that plan immediately.....lmao