Help with my 2004 Honda Accord set-up (What to do next?)

[ViG 10+ year member]

Hi, thanks for reading, I'm new here. I went to best buy to ask for help, but I'll just leave it at: It was a complete waste of time. So I decided to turn to the internet [you guys] for help.

I drive a 2004 Honda Accord LX with a stock XM deck. I have already upgraded all of my speakers (except tweeters). I currently have the standard 4 speakers hooked up to the stock deck, and my sub has its own amp.

I made an illustration describing my complete set up, because It can be confusing with words:

Now, My Question

I want my car to be louder (my friends subs hit a lot harder [2 12's] and I'm Jealous). Do I A) Add another amp just for my 4 standard speakers, and keep just one sub or B) keep the standard 4 connected to the deck and buy another same 12' sub, swap out the current amp with a bigger one to power both?

I hope my question/drawing makes sense and I really, really look forward to your input.

Thank you!

-ViG

Click to read more...

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

welcome, and thanks for trusting your system with us.

this is a frequent question. and i'm very passionate about my answer. for a background (i.e. reference) i'm an Acoustics Engineer with an Electrical Engineering degree, and over 15 years experience in car audio.

I spend time and money investing in the pursuit of a realistic sound stage and the most accurate reproduction of the recording possible. Simply put i'm in it for the love of music. Music is the key word there. Music is not just bass, but music is enhanced by a correct reproduction of all frequencies recorded.

Don't worry about who has more bass. Concentrate on the best overall sound - realistic sounding instruments, vocals, etc. When you make music your focus - everything else falls into place.

I never recommend running aftermarket speakers on a stock deck. My vote is for a good 4 channel amp for your speakers first. Then, as budget allows, upgrade to either more subs or a better sub. But before you replace your sub - RELOCATE IT. try moving it to the rear passenger corner of the trunk, aimed to the driver's side. This will corner load the sub and increase performance by reducing phase interference.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

to elaborate further, subwoofer placement, and speaker placement are key. you always need to consider the direct path and the indirect path (reflection). a sub in a trunk has a direct path to your ear (regardless of it's orientation). it has indirect or reflected paths that are off of the hard surfaces in the trunk. think of bass (and speakers in general) like waves in a bath tub. when you drop an object it produces a circular wave patter that then bounces off of nearby surfaces. when the direct sound combines with the reflected sound you get phase interference, meaning that some frequencies add destructively (cancel) and some add constructively (combine). the result is unnatural sound, and reduced output at some frequencies with exaggerated output at other frequencies.

subwoofer placement is very important, and one of the most important things to consider, trumped only by the enclosure itself. You could get that single 12 to not only be louder than your friends 12's but also sound better (assuming they are of similar quality) - simply by relocating the sub and maybe even changing the enclosure.

speaker placement is equally important. always focus on the front speakers and their installation. just tossing speakers in metal holes will not yield adequate results. you need sound deadening, stiffening of the surface, and sealing of the door in relation to the door metal and door panel. weatherstripping foam is your friend. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

you should really consider getting a decent component set up front. you can use the factory tweeter locations but i've found they aren't ideal and the apillars are much better.

Check out this competition build in a 2005 Accord from a TeamSoundDomain member (who had a very successful rookie year in MECA).

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1370104&page=1#Post1370104

 

[ViG 10+ year member]

Thanks for the detailed reply keep_hope_alive.

I think your right, and i'll agree with you via getting a 4 channel amp for my 4 speakers. So I'm sold on that point.

I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit more on subwoofer placement, this is really interesting to me. Where exactly in my trunk should I have it? In the rear passenger seats there's a little opening to the trunk eh, id say, 2x1 feet or so. I have my sub facing out into this hole. The box I build for this sub has a air port in it as well. I drew another picture with my trunk and was wondering if you could suggest the best placement for my box:

Another question I have is, when you said "you should really consider getting a decent component set up front. you can use the factory tweeter locations but i've found they aren't ideal and the apillars are much better." What do you mean by component? Component as in better front speakers? Tweeters? The deck itself? (which I've looked into changing but with temperature controls built into it, I think i have a better chance building a rocket ship by hand). Please elaborate.

Once again, I really appreciate your response and look forward to hearing form you again!

-ViG

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

if you have a seal around the enclosure to the rear seat opening, it can work. I tried that, and it worked well (both sealed and IB) but output was a bit lacking.

Then I moved it to the Blue X and it was much louder, much more punch, etc. Avoid the Cyan, Green, and Orange X locations. The direct path and the path reflected from the rear trunk wall will give you cancellation for frequencies who's half wavelength is close to the difference in those two paths. Essentially you'll hear both paths (and a lot others) and phase interference will cause a reduction in output.

Component sets are a generic term referring to speaker systems with separate tweeters and woofers and passive crossovers. There are a lot to choose from, in many price points.

like these:

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/I61-2.jpg

read this manual, it will teach you about a sound stage and how to create one in a vehicle:

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Imagine_Master_Manual_Final.pdf

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

The speakers I linked to above are $200 for the set - brand new, authorized. Pretty basic but with very awesome sound. I just put a set in a 1939 coupe show car/hot rod, powered by a simple Alpine 4channel amp with a single Hertz 10" and an entry level Kenwood Excelon deck. It's a great sounding system. I linked the manual because the owner/founder Scott Buwalda has taken the time to provide a lot of education in the owner's manual in an advanced section. If you can follow his advice, you'll be very happy you did.

When I did a single 12 in the rear arm rest opening, i made a baffle to prevent trunk cancellation. You can see that build here:

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1369669&page=1&fpart=2

And i'm still on the fence with a pair of Oz Audio 300H 12's mounted IB in the rear trunk opening, or a pair of Oz Audio 250L 10's mounted in the rear corner(s). I'm redoing my entire trunk, and the end result will be full custom with the three amps, processor, and pair of subs - all with almost my entire trunk volume freed up and a spare tire! I need to test the difference between one sub in the rear corner vs two subs, one each in the rear corners, vs two subs in one corner. I am concerned about phase interference, so I may stick with a single sub. If I want more output, i'll get a beefer sub and a larger amp. One sub and one amp can provide as much or as little bass as you want - all depends on your budget and installation. Installation is key.

I will tell you that the worst possible performance is had when a sub box is simply placed in a trunk. If it's not integrated into the vehicle - it's going to suffer from phase interference.