Help? Can a 15" sub with the right enclosure handle double-bass metal AND do Hip-hop?

[boostd92]

. Check your wiring buddy, you might have your **** wired up wrong.

The current pioneer sub is a single voice coil, 4ohm, only one way to wire it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif What I meant was a 15" DVC Sub wired effectively to 2ohms at the amp (4ohm voice coils).

I do appreciate all the responses I've gotten in this thread, thank you guys. I think I've convinced myself that I eventually want to go bigger so I'm going to by the 15" DVC and have a box built correctly for it. If I'm still not getting the sound out of it with my current amp, I will replace the amp with something more appropriate.

 

[NSTALN 10+ year member]

Get yourself a 15inch Alpine Type-S. It will work quite well with 'only' 500 watts rms. It will work in 2cubes sealed and will dig as low as you want it to go. It's also an underhung coil design which is a more SQ oriented design and underhung designs tend to have a 'quicker' response ~which is to say the cone is more controlled, not necessarily 'quicker'.

Double-bass 'attack' is a result of good midbass, not sub-bass. If you're looking for accuracy in the kick-drum area you really want to focus on the midbass region.

 

[boostd92]

Update:

Against everyone's advice, I went out and bought a bigger sub and a pre-fab enclosure. I will admit that in part I was wrong, and in part I was right.... I talked with a local audio shop and the owner pretty much convinced me that if I'm a mostly "rock/metal" guy that I should stick with a 12 over a 15 and he also had a look at my trunk and what space I was willing to give up.

I got an Alpine SWR12D-4 and a pre-fab box from sonic electronics that was 0.75 ft3. The Alpine specs say the box should be 0.55-1.0 and ideal is 0.75. I know everyone here was saying that the box is everything... I know it's not "custom" but the interior volume and the actual L/W/H that Alpine suggested for "ideal" was nearly exact to this box. Plus the box was $40... if it ******, I'd trash it.

I (probably unnecessarily) glue-gunned all the interior seems and terminal port before I mounted the sub. I bought a hatch-back box - bascically it's a cube but the back wall is slanted slightly forward so you can shove it flush up against the back seats - I'm amazed at how little space it takes up designed like this.

Cut-to-the-chase: The sub sounds fantastic! Hits all the low notes that my 10" did not and wired 2-ohms @ 500w rms it hits as hard as I would ever want it to hit.

Bad part: Those that recommended a bigger/better amp - you were right. I don't need any more out of the system right now, but as it sits I probably only have 10% headroom above where I've got it set. It would definitely be better having an amp that isn't working as hard, but the sound is exactly what I wanted. Where it's at, I can turn the bass up to an uncomfortable level and shake the dishes in my kitchen from the garage but it's not going to win any loudness competitions.

I'm happy. The next step is upgrading my front stage. The most common upgrade for my car is a set of plug-and-play speakers from bavsound using "Rainbow" brand components. Anyone have any experience with these?

 

[anger 10+ year member]

I'm happy.

That's cool you're happier with it, but I'll bet my left nut you're far from its potential...even with that amp. It took me a couple disappointing installs and a bit of accepted advice from members here before I understood how crucial the enclosure is.

If you have a little extra time/money you should give a proper custom ported enclosure a shot and hear what you've been missing. I've got the same taste in music and can tell you first hand that ported can produce that tight, punchy sound you're looking for and so much more.

 

[Eggroll]

That's cool you're happier with it, but I'll bet my left nut you're far from its potential...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rotflol.gif.b453361716769b8110ddefc85ff03cd2.gif

but yes I do agree

 

[boostd92]

That's cool you're happier with it, but I'll bet my left nut you're far from its potential...even with that amp. It took me a couple disappointing installs and a bit of accepted advice from members here before I understood how crucial the enclosure is.
If you have a little extra time/money you should give a proper custom ported enclosure a shot and hear what you've been missing. I've got the same taste in music and can tell you first hand that ported can produce that tight, punchy sound you're looking for and so much more.

I'm sure you're right. I ended up with the sealed box partly because of space... when I go to the track (and in the summers that's often) I pull it out. In the winter we'll go snowboarding and I'll fold down the seats for the snowboards and have to pull it out as well. The size/weight of this box was very appealing.

One question about ported enclosures... on my alpine spec sheet, it lists a sepcific frequency it should be tuned to... do I follow that or is there a certain frequency for a certain kind of sound?

 

[anger 10+ year member]

One question about ported enclosures... on my alpine spec sheet, it lists a sepcific frequency it should be tuned to... do I follow that or is there a certain frequency for a certain kind of sound?

That'd be a question for a more knowledgable member or whoever you get a design/enclosure from. As far as I understand, there are so many variables and other things to consider. I'd assume manufacture recommendations would be decent but it's possible that better could be had for your specific application.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I'm sure you're right. I ended up with the sealed box partly because of space... when I go to the track (and in the summers that's often) I pull it out. In the winter we'll go snowboarding and I'll fold down the seats for the snowboards and have to pull it out as well. The size/weight of this box was very appealing.
One question about ported enclosures... on my alpine spec sheet, it lists a sepcific frequency it should be tuned to... do I follow that or is there a certain frequency for a certain kind of sound?

Yeah, metal, you tune a lot higher around 36 to 37hz. 32 hz recommended will sound smooth and hit really low but not loud at all on upper bass where your tight punch is. 1.75 cubic feet tuned to 35 to 37hz will sound decent. Aim for 14 to 15 square inches of port area per cubic feet. Download torres box calculator and design your box.

However if you are already happy then just leave it at a sealed box and stay happy. Add more power if you want louder and maybe another 12 in a sealed later on and get a 2000 rms amp for both of them, saves space and will still bump. Have them on the sides of the trunk so the middle is free for storage.

Normally i think sealed is wasted output potential but 2 12s on 2000 watts will still get loud enough in a sealed.

Edit: For the record the shop you went to is a joke if they think 15s are slower than 12s on fast double bass pedal beats. Hope you didnt pay more than 200 for the sub and box.

 

[boostd92]

I paid $160 for the sub (brand new) and $40 for the box, so yea, about $200.

I was doubtful about the 12 vs. 15 but after seeing where this 12" box fit, I'm happy. It sits far back against the seats and clears the amp (which is mounted to the trunk roof) by about 2-3". If I went to a 15" I'd either have to have the box coming further forward or sideways to stay at the same height and that just means less trunk space.

 

[boostd92]

Update:Cut-to-the-chase: The sub sounds fantastic! Hits all the low notes that my 10" did not and wired 2-ohms @ 500w rms it hits as hard as I would ever want it to hit.

WRONG. I submit to the forum knowledge gurus. I was definitely wrong.

That's cool you're happier with it, but I'll bet my left nut you're far from its potential

RIGHT.

Well it's only been a week and as much better the sound is with the new sub and box, I've already gotten used to the extra volume/depth/punch and find myself regularly bumping up the sub channel against the limit the amp can put out (not clipping, sounds clear but just doesn't have the power to make any more volume).

I love the "kind" of sound the Alpine SWR12D4 in it's sealed box puts out, I just need more volume out of it.

I'm big into engine performance upgrades, have been modifying cars for 20+ years and am very familiar with the "butt dyno".... thats where you add a bunch of horsepower to your car and a few months later get used to it and don't feel it anymore (and want to add more). I was naive to think that car audio would be any different.... perhaps my audio upgrades are just degrading my physical hearing and I want to go louder... hah!

So.... that being said, I'm eating crow and planning to swap out my 5 channel amp for two separate amps and am looking for suggestions. Since I know I *need* a big amp for the sub, I'm going to start with replacing the 5 channel with a dedicated 1/2 channel sub amp and 4 channel interior speaker amp, and if more wattage doesn't get me where I want, I'll add another SWR12D4 and box into the mix. I really like the sub and box I have now and a second one will fit perfectly right next to it... plus that will give me the ease of removing just one of them if I need fold-down-seat-pass-through room and still keep one sub in the car at times.

With that in mind, I'd be grateful for (and promise to follow the spirit of) advice in picking two new amps. I need one 4 channel amp that can do 75W rms (I think that's my fronts limit, the rear 6x9's say 125W rms.. open to advice on that), and then I need a sub amp that can handle one, or possibly two Alpine SWR12D4's (two 4 ohm coils per sub that can be wired to 2 ohm per sub). The power handling for each sub is rated to 300-1000W rms (500W per coil) with a maximum of 3,000W each.

I'd like to stay below $250 per amp... or perhaps $500 total, however it adds up. I'd also like to have the same brand amps for aesthetic reasons (I think I'll mount them on the seat backs instead of the trunk roof so they'll now be visible).

I submit my previously arrogant choices humbly, to the forums experienced advice on this.

Thank you.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

You do get used to things. I was demoing two days ago and was like.. huh, doesn't seem as loud anymore.

Then I dropped some ca$h on new equipment.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

WRONG. I submit to the forum knowledge gurus. I was definitely wrong.



RIGHT.

Well it's only been a week and as much better the sound is with the new sub and box, I've already gotten used to the extra volume/depth/punch and find myself regularly bumping up the sub channel against the limit the amp can put out (not clipping, sounds clear but just doesn't have the power to make any more volume).

I love the "kind" of sound the Alpine SWR12D4 in it's sealed box puts out, I just need more volume out of it.

I'm big into engine performance upgrades, have been modifying cars for 20+ years and am very familiar with the "butt dyno".... thats where you add a bunch of horsepower to your car and a few months later get used to it and don't feel it anymore (and want to add more). I was naive to think that car audio would be any different.... perhaps my audio upgrades are just degrading my physical hearing and I want to go louder... hah!

So.... that being said, I'm eating crow and planning to swap out my 5 channel amp for two separate amps and am looking for suggestions. Since I know I *need* a big amp for the sub, I'm going to start with replacing the 5 channel with a dedicated 1/2 channel sub amp and 4 channel interior speaker amp, and if more wattage doesn't get me where I want, I'll add another SWR12D4 and box into the mix. I really like the sub and box I have now and a second one will fit perfectly right next to it... plus that will give me the ease of removing just one of them if I need fold-down-seat-pass-through room and still keep one sub in the car at times.

With that in mind, I'd be grateful for (and promise to follow the spirit of) advice in picking two new amps. I need one 4 channel amp that can do 75W rms (I think that's my fronts limit, the rear 6x9's say 125W rms.. open to advice on that), and then I need a sub amp that can handle one, or possibly two Alpine SWR12D4's (two 4 ohm coils per sub that can be wired to 2 ohm per sub). The power handling for each sub is rated to 300-1000W rms (500W per coil) with a maximum of 3,000W each.

I'd like to stay below $250 per amp... or perhaps $500 total, however it adds up. I'd also like to have the same brand amps for aesthetic reasons (I think I'll mount them on the seat backs instead of the trunk roof so they'll now be visible).

I submit my previously arrogant choices humbly, to the forums experienced advice on this.

Thank you.

custom ported box end of story.

You do get used to things. I was demoing two days ago and was like.. huh, doesn't seem as loud anymore.



Then I dropped some ca$h on new equipment.

Yeah, first week, system can choke me and impede my breathing. Next week, NOTHING!