Hello again, I have some questions, long post

[tucansam]

So I tried to sign up for the forum and realized I had become a member in 2007. I've been out of the stereo world for some time!

I went from a PG M44 with BA Pro's and a pair of 8w6's in the mid 1990s, to an ESX Q1204 and a set of CDT 6.5 HD Braxials with an a/d/s/ Reference 10" in 2003. I have now inherited a Dodge Ram and would like to do something minimal with it, so please bear with me as I work through a ton of questions.

First, I recognize a lot of brands that I knew back in the day, and there are a ton of brands I have never heard of before. I've read threads that PPI is no longer PPI, Soundtream is no longer Soundstream, Hifonics is no longer Hifonics... Seems now there are several massive factories in China turning out the same stuff, and everyone is just arranging parts differently on breadboards and making different heatsink designs. Please correct me if I'm wrong (seriously, PLEASE correct me, please tell me these old famous outstanding old school companies' products haven't turned to garbage). Any new players on the market (since 2003-2005) that deserve a look, particularly if they're semi-budget friendly? I've been reading a ton of reviews on various vendor websites, and that's been helpful.

I am also totally new to Class D stuff. I have read good and bad. Lots of talk about the high end not being the same quality on a Class D. But then I see amps the size of a pack of smokes claiming to put out 300w. Amazing if true. I have no direct experience, so comments welcome (and I'm not trying to start a a/b vs d war here, just trying to get educated again).

I had 250lbs of sound deadener and foam in my first car with a system in it, and almost 300lbs in my second car. Both were asphalt-based Dynamat clones, and I will never make that mistake again.

So first question... How is Be Quiet Ultimate? I've read that butyl vs asphalt is preferred, and my black car in AZ summer literally melted my Dynamat clone stuff (Raammat) and glue has been leaking out the door drains for years. The panels I glued to my roof have come off, rendering my sunroof inoperable. Fortunately that car has 340k miles on it and will be donated to a local high school auto shop very soon.

Second question... 2008 Dodge Ram quad cab, noisy truck. In addition to Be Quiet, I'd also like to install foam in the headliner, back wall, and under the carpet. I've used jute before and it worked fairly well, but rather than trying to increase mass, I'm trying to absorb road noise. Suggestions or advice on this are welcome. I'm just about over reading reviews on amazon of name-brand stuff vs generic stuff vs Chinese stuff vs stuff that's meant for scientific or industrial use... its too much info to process. Simple closed cell foam is what I'm thinking will work best, but other ideas welcome. Be Quiet Ultimate + closed cell foam, yay or nay?

Third question... My ESX Q1204 needs repair, a local shop has quoted me $120-180 to fix, believing it to be a power supply problem (amp comes on and shuts off a second or two later, with and without a load on the outputs). I don't have a ton of room in the Ram, and the ESX is large (18" wide). Wondering if it would be worth having the amp repaired. That amp is a Zed amp and is truly a thing of beauty, very beastly, puts out gobs of very clean power, and I'm struggling with finding a potential replacement.

My fourth question... Been doing a lot of research on amps, and have been seriously looking at the PPI Phantom and the PPI Black Ice, both four channel. Have also looked at RF Prime and a handful of others, including brands I've never heard of but which seem to get great reviews. I can't believe the prices on them, and that makes me think the quality isn't there. I'm after a four channel amp, front will run my CDTs and rear will bridge to a single sub. If the ESX can be repaired, and will fit, I'd love to run it. On the other hand, if there is a smaller amp of similar quality (sound-wise) that puts out similar power, I'd love to hear about it. This is where a/b vs d confusion comes into play. I still like to boom once in a while, but I'm far more interested in SQ and hearing every detail in the music. Recommendations on a modern amp that is similar to the ESX Q1204 would be most welcome, but if they exceed $200 in price, I'll probably just have my ESX repaired and run it.

Fifth question... Dodge Ram owners, this is for you. I have a 2008 quad cab. I am looking at a Fox Box vented 10" or sealed 12" under the rear seat, can't decide which just yet. This opens the other side of the rear seat for my ESX (it won't fit anywhere else) and lets me store stuff under the front seats. Or, with a newer (smaller) amp, I can fit it under a front seat and have half of the area under the rear seat for storage. So Dodge Ram quad cab owners, how have you installed your stuff? I have about 13" of width under each front seat. I don't want wires or the edges of amps to be visible from outside the truck through the windows, so footprint is important. This makes me re-visit the Class D question, because I've seen some *extremely* small amps that claim to put out a lot of power.

I have a ton more questions, but this will at least get me started, and I'm sure you tolerate long posts the same way I do. So if you've made it this far into my post, thanks. I miss being a part of this community, but my gosh things have changed over the last 10 years, I hardly recognize this industry at all now.

Help or advice always welcome.

Thanks.

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[JohnKuthe]

...So first question... How is Be Quiet Ultimate? I've read that butyl vs asphalt is preferred, and my black car in AZ summer literally melted my Dynamat clone stuff (Raammat) and glue has been leaking out the door drains for years. The panels I glued to my roof have come off, rendering my sunroof inoperable. Fortunately that car has 340k miles on it and will be donated to a local high school auto shop very soon.

...

Dunno about the BQuiet Ultimate specifically, but I bought a 50 foot roll of BQuiet regular I guess and then bought some Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner Pro and had my installer guy install it all. He said the Damplifier Pro was about some of the best panel deadener he'd ever installed. BQuiet was OK but not as thick and heavy as the Damplifier Pro.

John Kuthe...

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Class d or class a/b will sound equally as bad when you buy cheap. However a mediocre class D and a mediocre class a/b, the ab will produce cleaner undistorted power at when the amp is maxed and stressed out. However quality class D and class AB will sound basically the same but class D will have way more headroom and waaay more power and efficiency. Most of all the SQ guys are switching over to quality class Ds, too much power on the table for them to leave out. Zed audio has his own line which is his flagship line called Leviathan series of amps which is pure class D. So even the great Zed is a convert just to let you see how much things have changed.

For your budget, repair the amp. 200 gonna get you mediocre class D s aka ppi phantom and im sure your zed amp will make power a lot cleaner.

Id stick with stinger expert roadkill if you want a nice performing budget deadener of high quality. Skip the foam idea and look at mass loaded vinyl. Does 100x better job at eliminating road noise than foam and deadener combined.

You can get 3000 watts in an amp smaller than your ESX Q1204 nowadays with fullbridge technology.

 

[garychoffmann 10+ year member]

Mount your amps on the rear wall of your truck. There is plenty of room there. Fox box is one of the better ones for oir trucks

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

The latest and greatest Zed designs are being used by Focal. Cutting edge technology in those.... priced accordingly. I believe he designed a few for Mosconi as well and of course the Zed branded amps are no slouch either. He designed the Phoenix Gold SX series a few years back which are a great starting point for full range class D. They do NOT have regulated power supply (a sacrifice made for space saving) but are great amps and can be had for fairly cheap.

The ESX is likely worth repairing. Send it to Stephen/Zed and it'll get done right.

There's a huge deadening thread at DIYMA that you can read for various suggestions there. You could write a small book on the topic these days so I'll leave that up to you. Butyl + aluminum and MLV are the two most popular products though so between the two you should be able to do whatever you want.

Yes, most of the brands from 15 years ago are now junk, and even Rockford for example makes very nice amps, but their entry level (prime) has always been pretty low quality IMO. That said, apart from reliability, features, build quality, if you're not scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel in flea market junk you should not "hear" the difference between the vast majority of amps sold these days provided you run them within their intended limits.

 

[tucansam]

Thank you all for your input thus far! First and foremost, Zed's website is not working, does anyone have a contact email for them?

I have not yet removed the rear seats from the truck, but it looks like the lumbar portion is mounted directly to the rear wall. I'll have to look closer and see if there will be room for the amp there.

I believe I have settled on a very thin closed-cell foam to decouple, along with MLV on top of said foam, with a butyl-based deadener under that. Will look at the Stinger stuff, thanks.

Sad the the beloved brands have gone by the way side... As a teen I lived to get my monthly issues of Car Stereo Review and Car Audio and Electronics. US Amps and Orion ruled the SPL circuit back then, with McIntosh, Autotek, Audison, PPI, PG, a/d/s/, and (later) Xtant in the SQ world, with MB Quart, Boston, a/d/s/, and Focal ($$$$$$$) for drivers. Now I miss those days.