Finally picked up a clamp meter and tested my zx...

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Energy in will ALWAYS equal energy out. Again, this MUST be true. If you don't get this result, you're missing some form of loss. That extra 1000watts could easily be transferred to heat altering your impedance which would alter the alignment and the score.

Once again, nice in theory but not in practice.

Simple enclosure changes can result in a huge increase in SPL while retaining the same (or even less) power levels.

This would be the ENCLOSURE efficiency relative to the power level and cabin gain. The more air that can be moved efficiently and freely, the higher the SPL levels are going to be. Regardless of the power used.

Enclosure design and implementation played just as important of a role in my power levels as the subwoofer itself did.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Until I see you put these theories into practice, and get 100% perfect results as your theories would have you believe, its all completely bunk.
Now you say that the vehicle will act as capacitence and inductance much like a purely resistive load. How in the HELL would you figure that out?

Guess what, you can't. Thus why nobody uses that form of testing for figuring out in-car power. It's completely pointless and a waste of time.

I will never be able to get things to match the theories nor am I knowledgeable enough to be able to apply everything correctly! I'm ****ing human and I don't know everything! What I'm saying with that is this world follows the laws of physics! We can't break them! Electrical theory follows the laws of physics! Just because we don't fully understand them does not mean they're worthless... my God!

No.. no.. no... A purely resistive load HAS NO CAPACITANCE OR INDUCTANCE WHICH IS WHY IT'S PURELY RESISTIVE! What I was saying is that the power your sub will see (watts) is the same as the power put out into a purely resistive load! It's really not as complicated as you think. The inductance and capacitance will make things APPEAR as though there is more power. I don't know any other ways to make that clear. You really need to get experience with it yourself and see it in play to understand it. You would first need to understand what capacitors and inductors do.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Once again, nice in theory but not in practice.
Simple enclosure changes can result in a huge increase in SPL while retaining the same (or even less) power levels.

This would be the ENCLOSURE efficiency relative to the power level and cabin gain. The more air that can be moved efficiently and freely, the higher the SPL levels are going to be. Regardless of the power used.

Enclosure design and implementation played just as important of a role in my power levels as the subwoofer itself did.

I know this. This has nothing at all to do with what I have been saying.........

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

I will never be able to get things to match the theories nor am I knowledgeable enough to be able to apply everything correctly! I'm ****ing human and I don't know everything! What I'm saying with that is this world follows the laws of physics! We can't break them! Electrical theory follows the laws of physics! Just because we don't fully understand them does not mean they're worthless... my God!
No.. no.. no... A purely resistive load HAS NO CAPACITANCE OR INDUCTANCE WHICH IS WHY IT'S PURELY RESISTIVE! What I was saying is that the power your sub will see (watts) is the same as the power put out into a purely resistive load! It's really not as complicated as you think. The inductance and capacitance will make things APPEAR as though there is more power. I don't know any other ways to make that clear. You really need to get experience with it yourself and see it in play to understand it. You would first need to understand what capacitors and inductors do.

If I cared to learn about inductance and capacitence and all these theories I would have become an electrical engineer. But I'm not.

I use the test methods given to me, with the equipment I have available. I test all my amps the same way, thus making my findings credible for MY INSTALL, which is exactly what the beginning of this thread stated.

Just because this test method does not work across the board for everyone equally, does NOT mean that it won't work for me as long as I keep all variables consistent.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

My problem is not with what you do for yourself but how you present that data to people who don't know any better.

Facts:

1) You do what you want and it works for you (that's obvious based on your accomplishments).

2) Your method (and the method of others) is not correct for measuring power output of an amp in watts.

3) I'm tired of explaining the same things over and over.

4) The laws of physics cannot be broken

5) You're louder than I will ever be.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

I will never be able to get things to match the theories nor am I knowledgeable enough to be able to apply everything correctly! I'm ****ing human and I don't know everything! What I'm saying with that is this world follows the laws of physics! We can't break them! Electrical theory follows the laws of physics! Just because we don't fully understand them does not mean they're worthless... my God!
No.. no.. no... A purely resistive load HAS NO CAPACITANCE OR INDUCTANCE WHICH IS WHY IT'S PURELY RESISTIVE! What I was saying is that the power your sub will see (watts) is the same as the power put out into a purely resistive load! It's really not as complicated as you think. The inductance and capacitance will make things APPEAR as though there is more power. I don't know any other ways to make that clear. You really need to get experience with it yourself and see it in play to understand it. You would first need to understand what capacitors and inductors do.

Believe me, I understand what you are saying about a purely resistive load now. It has become clearer to me as this thread progressed.

But such things still don't benefit me from an SPL aspect as much as things like enclosure design, enclosure efficiency, cabin gain, controlling impedence rise, etc. Thus why I saw no reason to continue arguing about it. It's of no relevance to me and my situation.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

My problem is not with what you do for yourself but how you present that data to people who don't know any better.
Facts:

1) You do what you want and it works for you (that's obvious based on your accomplishments).

2) Your method (and the method of others) is not correct for measuring power output of an amp in watts.

3) I'm tired of explaining the same things over and over.

4) The laws of physics cannot be broken

5) You're louder than I will ever be.

I never presented these results to mislead people. I have always stated that results can and will vary depending on the application. That's one of the cardinal rules of car audio in my eyes.

My method is correct for me and what I need to accomplish. It may not be the way you like, or the way that is "proper", but it is the way taught to me and is the way used by many other people who are much more knowlegdeable than I am.

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

Heres what it boils down to ladys and gents.

Is this 100% Correct in the eyes of a Electrical engineer power ratings? no

Is it the best most of us can do ? Yes

Does it work as a decent comparison of other amps? yes

I spent 2 years in a basic electronics and then electronics engineering classes. Sure you need to know power factor and all that bs to be 100% correct, but it works for what were doing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

And FYI, I edited my original post just for you immacomputer. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[delvryboy 5,000+ posts]

Well one thing is for sure.... Thats alot of power from that amp in your install using your method. I honestly didn't think it was that much power.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Well one thing is for sure.... Thats alot of power from that amp in your install using your method. I honestly didn't think it was that much power.

I was figuring 2kw at best with my nasty impedence spike.

 

[95BlackGA 5,000+ posts]

Very nice results. I'm still saving up some money for my new setup and the ZX line has a place in there. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

EDIT : How do you factor in impedence rise?

 

[15nissen 10+ year member]

Well one thing is for sure.... Thats alot of power from that amp in your install using your method. I honestly didn't think it was that much power.

kicker ftw //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif