familiar with the saying "theres no replacement for displacement" tru 4 subs as well?

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

And when you hit the limit of what technology can do how do you do more? Displacement. I'm not talking domestics either. BMW wanted more power for the Ms so they went with more technology? Oh that's right they went with displacement. Nissan wanted more power for the G series Infinitis and the Z so they took one of the most technologically advanced engines on the planet that was tuned out about as much as possible for a production NA engine and they upped the displacement.
The whole cop out about technology being a replacement for displacement is only the poor ricers trying to feel adequate because their little grocery-getters are really still just nothing. Fact is that a properly built big engine will DESTROY a smaller engine every time.

Yep

Sorry guys...as far as acoustics goes, there simply is no replacement for displacement.

If you have 130dB at a higher octave, and drop 1 octave in frequency your displacement has to double to be at 130dB...

I've got a pocket rocket little 4 banger celica...but i'm not dare going to try to mess with my street rod with a big block 428scj in it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

If you have 130dB at a higher octave, and drop 1 octave in frequency your displacement has to double to be at 130dB...

Again you can game this a good bit by playing some acoustic tricks, but that only works at one very specific and single frequency. If you want loud on music for a daily system, the only way to get there is with cone area.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

the saying "theres no replacement for displacement" isnt even true. Its just something domestic owners can say to make themselves feel better.
The truth is, the biggest replacement for displacement, is technology.

And the same can be said for car audio. You can have a high quality 10 pounding way harder than a low quality 15 or 18.

Just like a properly built honda will smoke just about 99.9% of cars on the street, including V8-V12 displacement means nothing.

I love how people like to call ricers fast, but when you ask them to explain, they want to compare a fully tricked out ricer to a stock domestic. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Again you can game this a good bit by playing some acoustic tricks, but that only works at one very specific and single frequency. If you want loud on music for a daily system, the only way to get there is with cone area.

Yep

I'm speaking in regards of you being in a field with no reflections for at least 150 meters...

You can get a few acoustic tricks and what not in a car..but at the end of the day it's still displacement of air that reigns supreme and constant.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Again you can game this a good bit by playing some acoustic tricks, but that only works at one very specific and single frequency. If you want loud on music for a daily system, the only way to get there is with cone area.

Proper front and rear phase alignment and pressure transfer to the acoustics of the vehicle can offer just as much of an advantage as displacement and it doesn't always have to be a high Q system pumping all it's energy into a small range of frequencies.

The key is that the saying "there's no replacement for displacement" is the same as saying, "there's no replacement for low frequency extension than Fs". You're looking at one aspect of output and trying to say that nothing else matters when in fact, it does matter. The answer that "technology" is the replacement for displacement is just as ignorant of a statement as the other. And to try to place everything else as constant doesn't really give you any answer but that as you increase displacement, output may also increase. But, you can also say that with displacement being constant, you can still gain very noticeable output by changing other things around.

That's why questions like this never end and you will always hear of them being debated.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Reinforcement nodes are 100% frequency dependent. They'll provide some boost in adjacent frequencies but the real problem is that you can't do a whole lot barring major reconstructive surgery on the vehicle to change the peak frequency or manipulating the temperature thus altering the speed of sound.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

I am quite aware of that but just throwing more drivers into a system doesn't work with the nodes but rather just makes them more evident. If you can get transmission line like pressure transfer or horn like expansion, it's possible to get a low Q distribution in the low frequency spectrum and nice gain across the band.

If you try to start to increase displacement there, you may gain output or you may not. The added displacement could throw off your pressure transfer which could lead to a higher peak but not much gain across the spectrum. Again, displacement is only one part of the equation that can't be ignored the same way other aspects can't be ignored either.

 

[kush-divinity 10+ year member]

Dude, they are talking from 1 extreme to another between SPL and SQ. If you are not gonna compete, or spend 6 months with a meter tuning your placement issues, just toss 4 12's in that muthafukker and hammer down. You want the 4 12's more than the 1 15, or you wouldnt have asked. Chicks love multi-sub setups more anyways, so you can finally get some snatch. And everyone has seen a 15 hit them low 30hz notes hard..... Sealed boxes have no bottom, so your 4 12's will play low as well, maybe better, cleaner, lower than the 15. And look sexier.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

Dude, they are talking from 1 extreme to another between SPL and SQ. If you are not gonna compete, or spend 6 months with a meter tuning your placement issues, just toss 4 12's in that muthafukker and hammer down. You want the 4 12's more than the 1 15, or you wouldnt have asked. Chicks love multi-sub setups more anyways, so you can finally get some snatch. And everyone has seen a 15 hit them low 30hz notes hard..... Sealed boxes have no bottom, so your 4 12's will play low as well, maybe better, cleaner, lower than the 15. And look sexier.

translation: more moofers = more tang?

 

[kush-divinity 10+ year member]

More woofers = way way way more tang //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

And really the reason I think go with 4 12's: Each woofer will see less than RMS- so they wont move as much, meaning less distortion from bottoming, less wear on the suspension, less heat build-up in the coil, and cleaner sound from woofers designed for SQ that aren't moving very hard.

Just my .02

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

More woofers = way way way more tang //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
And really the reason I think go with 4 12's: Each woofer will see less than RMS- so they wont move as much, meaning less distortion from bottoming, less wear on the suspension, less heat build-up in the coil, and cleaner sound from woofers designed for SQ that aren't moving very hard.

Just my .02

actually in my case the woofers will see RMS, im looking at the RE Re12's, yes the dirt cheap ones, the rms is only like 175w and they are dual 4, so 4 of them at 2ohms ask for 700w, thats why i said a zx750, its close enough.

and as the more woofers = more tang lol never had a problem there but when i get around to testing your theory i'll post my results with photographic evidence lol

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

I love how people like to call ricers fast, but when you ask them to explain, they want to compare a fully tricked out ricer to a stock domestic. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

lol couldn't agree more, i had a 93 prelude with the H22 vtech, and stock it was "quick" but my 96 mustang GT stock was faster //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif and if i woulda put 1500$ in to either one, the results would have been way more noticable in the GT