familiar with the saying "theres no replacement for displacement" tru 4 subs as well?

[spencer321 10+ year member]

10 subs running on 100 watts would really sound like shit.
Go for a 15 or 18"

My cuz made a smart move and bought a 18" "peavey black widow" guitar speaker and ran it on 750 and that is LOUD

why do you say they would sound like shit?

 

[MikeyB 5,000+ posts]

are you being for real or joking?
cuz that not what im saying, its what im asking given equal power, i really don't know..

Im serious, and it completely applies to what your asking......

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

Im serious, and it completely applies to what your asking......

ok thats what i figured, but everyone seems care more about how much power ONE sub can take, and yes i know dante did it with a single 18 i understand that, but, if you have limited wattage and aren't looking for a nightshade or a BTL or a mach 5 SPL or an MT kind of sub simply because you only have a 1000w or 1500w why not separate it a bit?

eventually i would like to do 8 RE12's off a saz1500 in 7-8cubes sealed just because it would be awesome

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Supercharge it.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

Supercharge it.

audioholic! my favorite expert lol

I think supercharging a system would be something along the lines of putting a really small pully on the alternator and spinning it all the hell in hopes it doesnt blow itself to bits, i mean thats what you do with a supercharger right? spin the shit out of it hope your engine doesnt blow lol

seriously though, whats your take on this cone area question

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Look at current trends in the SPL world. Use to be large arrays of subs in small sealed boxes (clam shells etc as we talked about the other day). But as Nate Munsun showed by hitting (almost) 170 with a single 10, amazing things can be done with maximizing the efficiency of a single driver... and use shit loads of power.

But you still see large arrays of ported speakers as well... look what Frankie Rio has done with a modest sized sedan.

What's my take? Chosing between lots of cone area or lots of power? Id chose both. You can always turn it down and call it headroom. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[oldschool4me 10+ year member]

kinda depends on the vehicle too. i would say more than likely the 4 12s would be > 1 15 off of the same power.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

What's my take? Chosing between lots of cone area or lots of power? Id chose both. You can always turn it down and call it headroom. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

lol i completely agree, and when i have both ill let you know, but theres a 3rd dimention in addition to lots of power and lots of cone area, SQ which is more qualitative than quantitative but regardless, i just think it would be easier for the average joe to maximize everything like you said, cone area and power, than try to milk out every last tenth of a decibal, i won't be competing but i would like it to be loud enough to drown out the guy next to me BLARING his stock radio(i hate that shit)

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

kinda depends on the vehicle too. i would say more than likely the 4 12s would be > 1 15 off of the same power.

standard cab truck, but before you wanna know how, its an 02 dodge ram, i've got 10.5 inches of depth, 60 inches of width and 25 inches of height to the window line. which is 7.16 cubes, but if im going to use ALL of that i would rather have 8 12s or 10's

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

i was thinking about 2 MJ18's sealed but they want more power and at 2ohms again where as for the same amount of money i could do 6 RE12's which is about a 30% increase in cone area, and would be happy on a Bxi1608 at 1.33 ohms should be about 1300w which is a hair over 210w a subwoofer, where as the 2 MJ's would probably be happier ona zx1500

 

[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

For music, go with more subs. For straight SPL, go with more power and less subs.

As an example... I used to have 4 BTL 18s with 8 Sundown 1500Ds, each pair strapped at .7ohm. So those amps at that load made SO much power it was scary. It would get loud, but It didnt have the playability that a daily musical car needs. I could crank it for 45 seconds full tilt, but then the subs would get really hot and stinky, and alot of the time I would rip tinsels from over-excurding them.

Now I have 6 Sundown 3000Ds, and thats even more power, but I have it split up between 24 15" Ascendant Chaos subs. They will play all day since they arent even seeing their RMS. Im going 16v soon (already have the equipment for it), and when I do, Ill be seeing around 1,000rms a sub. As it is now, the subs barely move even when I crank it full tilt. When I see around 1k per sub, they will get movin, and get warm eventually, but they will still be able to be beaten on everyday.

Speaking of alot of subs and very little power, Bonecrusher used to have 12 sealed Funkin Audio 15s on a single Orion 2500D and like 1 extra battery. Wasnt crazy loud or anything, but its the loudest 2500rms Ive ever heard and seeing that power he would play it full tilt for the entire show. Literally 5 hours a time full tilt. Good stuff.

It really depends on what you're looking to do. But for daily, stick to around the rms of the sub, and just get more of them. If a sub needs 5,000rms to get loud, its a waste of money anyway.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

For music, go with more subs. For straight SPL, go with more power and less subs.
As an example... I used to have 4 BTL 18s with 8 Sundown 1500Ds, each pair strapped at .7ohm. So those amps at that load made SO much power it was scary. It would get loud, but It didnt have the playability that a daily musical car needs. I could crank it for 45 seconds full tilt, but then the subs would get really hot and stinky, and alot of the time I would rip tinsels from over-excurding them.

Now I have 6 Sundown 3000Ds, and thats even more power, but I have it split up between 24 15" Ascendant Chaos subs. They will play all day since they arent even seeing their RMS. Im going 16v soon (already have the equipment for it), and when I do, Ill be seeing around 1,000rms a sub. As it is now, the subs barely move even when I crank it full tilt. When I see around 1k per sub, they will get movin, and get warm eventually, but they will still be able to be beaten on everyday.

Speaking of alot of subs and very little power, Bonecrusher used to have 12 sealed Funkin Audio 15s on a single Orion 2500D and like 1 extra battery. Wasnt crazy loud or anything, but its the loudest 2500rms Ive ever heard and seeing that power he would play it full tilt for the entire show. Literally 5 hours a time full tilt. Good stuff.

It really depends on what you're looking to do. But for daily, stick to around the rms of the sub, and just get more of them. If a sub needs 5,000rms to get loud, its a waste of money anyway.

holy crap, 24 15 chaos at 1k each sounds painful. but anyways, thank you for the detailed response this is what i had in mind but i wanted a good opinion so i appreciate it

 

[Psycareyo 10+ year member]

audioholic! my favorite expert lol
I think supercharging a system would be something along the lines of putting a really small pully on the alternator and spinning it all the hell in hopes it doesnt blow itself to bits, i mean thats what you do with a supercharger right? spin the shit out of it hope your engine doesnt blow lol

seriously though, whats your take on this cone area question

Not really. It forces a considerably more dense air charge into a combuston chamber. When burned it creates way more energy. It doesn't spin the shit out of your engine. It operates mainly with the same range it does naturally asperated. Because it has so much more power, when wide open, it flys through the rpm band a lot faster.

Most engines actually lose power past a certain RPM range.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

I'm in this conundrum right now. With my space/power I could do two 18's ported, 3 18's sealed, a bunch of 15's or 12's sealed, etc. I think I've settled on 4 15" havocs sealed to be somewhere in the middle. Won't take up much space and will hopefully still be fun. Will it keep up with two 18's ported, no way.

But out of all my setups in recent time I liked my current setup of two se15's sealed best. It gets high, it gets low. Plays movies and all music great. I figure double the woofers and over double the power and it should be fun. It won't win me any competitions but it will make me happy no matter what song comes up next. Thats where I think more woofers as opposed to single huge ported setups come into play, kind of like what gmonk said above.

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

Good output comes from efficiently coupling the speaker to the enclosure and the speaker/enclosure to the interior of the vehicle. Sometimes that takes power and sometimes that takes cone area but it always takes a well planned and designed enclosure.

Speaker displacement is a very small factor in the grand scheme of things. If you take an 18" XXX and set it in the trunk and put 10k watts on it, you're not going to get any bass. Go ahead and add 5 more and 50k more watts and guess what? You will just hear them bouncing around in the trunk not putting out any bass. Even though they're displacing a ton of air, they're not efficiently coupled to the vehicle and so you get no output.