Fahrenheit 9/11

When this movie was being still being created, about 6 months ago I think, MM declared that the movie was a piece of art and had no obligation to be historically accurate. It's liberal propeganda and not worth my time and $ to go see.

 
Heres my rant on the subject... sorry its so long

To my Republican Friends who have still not switched and are fuming at Michael Moore right now:

To those who criticize Michael Moore and jump on the GOP right wing hack wagon of labeling every dissenter unpatriotic and politically motivated, you sorely miss the point of this brilliant work. Before you go scouring google to find some like-minded enraged conservative zealot to articulately denounce this movie and call it factually wrong …consider the actual POINT of the movie and understand WHY it resonates with SO MANY people around the globe and WHY it will likely set all sorts of new movie records in the coming months. WE are tired of being LIED to about WHY this administration went to war. This movie, is an attempt at healthy dialogue in a very polarized and divisive America. See the movie and tell us WHY this agenda is CORRECT and how it is ultimately helping us. Tell us why we needed to invade Iraq and why it is a healthy use of a trillion dollars…Don't further polarize and divide the country and world as Bush and Cheney have so effectively done.

You criticize the movie because it's slanted? DUH You criticize it because it makes leaps and infers paranoid conclusions at times (perhaps bush wakes up and thinks more about the Saudis then us…Moore's light humor)…do you really NEED another person drawing your own conclusions for you? Are you angry that his conclusions based on the record are different than yours? Do you object to his First Amendment right to voice his opinion in protest of our un-elected President? He gives you his evidence and draws a conclusion. Ummm…watch Fox news…they do every day but report it as "fair and balanced NEWS" not a documentary. He NEVER pretends to be balanced news…to the contrary, he's on TV everyday denouncing Bush (and even has denounced Kerry)

Here's my simple take on it. We know Bush LIED. The whole world knows Bush LIED. You would have to be a moron not to know by June 25,2004 that Bush took us to war on false and intentionally deceptive "intelligence." Did he plot this with the Saudis? Who knows. Doubtful…but there are clear questions that deserve public discourse which this un-elected President has intentionally NOT engaged in. Why haven't we focused efforts on Saudi Arabia? 19 of the 21 hijackers were from there. Clear links (as opposed to fabricated links) have been established between the Saudi government and private al quaeda charities…just like clear links exist between Bush and his father and the Bin Ladens. Either way…when you come out and decide we will allocate the forces of the US Military, thousands of young lives (and their blood), hundreds of billions of dollars (read: requiring social cutbacks in education and every other domestic priority), waging a war on an Arab country with Christian troops which will ultimately risk turning moderates into terrorist radicals (even more so than our current lack of credibility in the Israel conflict)…then you **** well better 1) have the goods on the country and leaders you target and 2) you better do what it takes to win and control the situation once you win.

Hey…IF Iraq IS behind 9-11, I don't think a person in America would object to his actions as he would still be sitting at his post 9-11 93% approval rating.

This movie enrages people who get caught up debating the little details, his innuendos, even his humor …the Saudis couldn't do it! Bush deserves vacations! Sadaam was really mean! Moore misquotes people! Blah blah blah…and they miss the point. Are we, as Britney Spears suggests, supposed to give carte blanche authority to our un-elected President and NOT demand accountability? Does anyone really believe there were WMDs in Iraq? That we had a plan to win the hearts and minds? That we were justified in ignoring the pleas of UN Weapons inspectors and the International Community and rush into this quagmire that Dubya and his cabinet labeled a "clear and present danger"?

In my opinion, Moore could have been 10,000 times MORE harsh to Dubya. He barely even mentions the prisoner abuse scandals that have basically undercut our ENTIRE moral authority and done more to spark terrorism than anything we did in the hundred years pre war. He doesn't really even give us a cost benefit analysis of how this war of misallocated funds has damaged Americans at home etc…and he barely skims the surface of but a handful of Dubya scandals and known incompetent handling of matters…all he asks is "Are we sending our troops into harms way for a justified cause?" This is a dialogue that came too late in the 70s and cost us 60,000 American lives and one that we **** well better be asking ourselves NOW. I call this movie the most important of our time because this election IS the most important one of our lifetime and one we should enter into with an EDUCATED electorate. I don't mind a person seeing the movie, disagreeing with the conclusions and defending Bush…I object to blind cowards who object to the movie, SCARED that by seeing it they may actually LEARN something about their President that they don't like! In other words, rather than following Cheney and yelling the "f-bomb" at your fellow citizens…educate and PERSUADE…the movie is healthy and brilliant because after 4 years of Bush, we finally have a real platform on which to debate the sanity of his decision making…the Prosecution has spoken…now feel free to defend his record.

Bush took us to war. Should he have attacked Iraq? Was it a clear and present danger? Did he do everything he could have done to prevent it? Did he send enough troops and support and where did those troops come from? Did Bush tactically use fear campaigns to push a pre-planned right wing social agenda? Is the so-called patriot act a justified response? These are the simple questions raised by the movie and remember… his points are made mostly by actual Bush film footage….the justifications for war are from Bush HIMSELF, Rice, Cheney and Powell…its not Moore taking artistic liberties…rather, a collection of clips and segments from the White House itself leading up to war, clips from actual soldiers in the war, and Moore himself with his simple style of Socratic questioning of Congressmen regarding their understanding of the agenda they are passing and whether they are willing to permit their loved ones fight in a war they are so quick to commit other's children to.

Answer the film's simple questions…don't waste your time on "Michael Moore is a biased guy and this film is unpatriotic" Of course there is Moore's brilliant trademark humor in it. However, Moore's audience is pretty well-educated…and I believe able to divorce Moore's sarcastic quips and one-liners from a valid attack on Bush's policies. I still laugh (although its quite sad) every time I see the clip and can hear Moore talking about how Bush spent 8 minutes after the second plane hit, without anyone to coach him, reading "My Pet Goat"

Don't get bogged down with Moore's dislike of Dubya and allow blind loyalty cloud your judgment either. This film Is patriotic…the film is SO explosive, brilliant and well-received right now because SO MANY of us in this great country feel it has been hijacked by an unelected man with a disgusting agenda and one who is pushing our country irreparably in the wrong direction…and this film merely gives US a voice. And hopefully that voice will be heard loud and clear in November.

:thumbsupw

 
I DO plan to see the movie, however, MM takes things far further than just slanting things to his view, he literally makes things up. I don't know any details in 9/11, but there are numerous "facts" that he shows in BFC that are outright completely false. So, to me, whether you agree with his point of view or not, his movies can't be taken any more seriously than your typical Hollywood comedy.

 
However, Moore's audience is pretty well-educated…and I believe able to divorce Moore's sarcastic quips and one-liners from a valid attack on Bush's policies.
I'm sure by "moore's audience" you meant yourself, b/c the movie is clearly aimed at idiots who have no idea about politics and are gullible enough to fall for MMs propaganda. Just b/c he and you share a hatred of bush does not make him "brilliant". I'm not just pissed b/c his views aren't the same as mine, its how blends opinion and fact to create a biased propaganda film. I dont care where on the political spectrum you are, I don't like it and I encourage others not to fall for it. If you want to learn about the politics of 9/11, bush, and the war in Iraq, educate yourself so you can form your own opinion, dont watch this kind of garbage.

 
And I think Moore has succeeded in his goal of making dollars, because it grossed something like 21.8 million in the first weekend. Broke his own record of 21.6 million. If you want to give him money, ok. If you wish to do your own research and form and educated opinion, even better.

 
So, what you're saying is that the movie is utterly biased, has no point, or fact. You have taken nothing into consideration, just plainly sweeped it away because it's assumed to be a collection of left wing idiocracy. No? Then rephrase what you're saying. It seems every Democrat I know can see from both sides of the spectrum, and take things into consideration.

Then you have die-hard Republicans, who can't take any thought/comment/DOCUMENTARIES into consideration, whatsoever. Open your eyes. If you're not a complete moron, you can see a movie and take it for what it's worth, rather than whine and complain that it's bashing.. what? A smart, diverse human being? (k) If you don't think there are any facts in the movie, you're probably right. He created a fictional universe of oppression and aggression towards a superb right wing American government.

By the way Jmac, I don't like Kerry. I'm voting for him, in order to remove Bush from power. Do I know what elections are all about? I suppose I don't, even though I've worked for the Democratic party during the 2000 elections. If I believe we have a moronic hick (under premise of fact) for a President, why would I NOT vote him out? Every American has that right, and no one should be labeled for using it.

 
Well eardrummin i will not call you an idiot becuase that would be false you obviously are a true intellect becuase you like car audio. But as a marine i can say that bush is not a dumb hick as you say but a man who is a true texan. Im originally from oklahoma and support bush in everyway possible. I have a true problem with kerry who got supposed medals for valor and i was here in south carolina when he came here and his former boat crewman and co were here and his co himself said that his medals were questionable. I will not vote ever for a man republican or democrat who sided with Hanoi Jane during the vietnam war. Please dont take this out of context this is just my opinion. I do apolade you for actually working for the democrats in 2000 at least you care enough to work.

 
Well eardrummin i will not call you an idiot becuase that would be false you obviously are a true intellect becuase you like car audio. But as a marine i can say that bush is not a dumb hick as you say but a man who is a true texan. Im originally from oklahoma and support bush in everyway possible. I have a true problem with kerry who got supposed medals for valor and i was here in south carolina when he came here and his former boat crewman and co were here and his co himself said that his medals were questionable. I will not vote ever for a man republican or democrat who sided with Hanoi Jane during the vietnam war. Please dont take this out of context this is just my opinion. I do apolade you for actually working for the democrats in 2000 at least you care enough to work.
Sir, Bush is not from Texas, nor was he raised there.. so I don't know if he could be called a true Texan.

As far as Kerry not deserving his medals.. you could be right, you might be wrong. At least he served. Bush gets an excused awol, go figure.

I respect that you like Bush, I just don't respect Bush.. and thanks for the support on the Election work.

Jmac, it's really as simple as what outweighs what..

Nader stole the election from Gore in 2000, and he could do it again to Kerry. The Green Party tend to be more leftist and steal votes from the Democrats. If the Green party at a maximum could only get 4% of the votes.. would you rather waste your vote on them, or vote for the second best.. who actually has a chance. Sad but true.

 
This topis is so touchy...I truly think this is gonna be the most divided election in United Stated history, and my vote is going straight to Bush.

Theres another documentary coming out called Micheal Moore Hates America, now that I will go to see.

I can't believe some of you sit there and tell us that we are actually supposed to just sit back and look past his lies and all his other false bullshit he puts in his movies to be able to see "the real point". The fact is if he wanted to make a justified argument he shouldnt need all of the false shit in his movies to back him up, it should be documented credible facts so that his movies could have some actually justification behind them.

I saw the movie, it was literally laughable. People, liberals (shudder), were actually cheering during the movie. You have to see it, I just feel bad that this movie could actually have an impact on America.

It really doesnt help that all those liberal Hollywood actors and media people support this type of shit. Like Madonna said shes never cried so hard during a movie.... give me a break.

Moore actually says the reason we are going to war is because Bush wants to keep the poor people poorer, eventually they will starve, or something like that. It was hard to pick out his exact points from all the bullshit in the movie. THERE IS ACTUALLY A POINT IN THE MOVIE WHEN BUSHES WORDS HE IS SAYING DOESNT MATCH HIS MOUTH THATS MOVING, he edited in a speech for him. RIDICULOUS

He also interviews false people thats hes used in his other movies and brings in his precious town of Flint Michigan, like he does in every movie.

Why would someone do all this crap to prove a valid point? Theres no reason, this movie is biased slander.

One last thing...he made the point that Sadam never actually hurt an American... I dont recall that Hitler did either, maybe we shoulda just left him alone too...

 
ok im not getting into the argument, but can everyone stop using WWII analogies? Japan attacked the US on US soil, and they were allied with the nazi's. so yes, we were attacked first in WWII. so stop saying we were not attacked!

 
hey joshpoints, the stickler with outsourcing and kerry saying he can stop it is pretty much BS. Many many many of the companies that are outsourcing have become international corporations, meaning they have offices and buildings in other countries and that they aren't really buying labor overseas for their company in America: they have a good chunk of their company and selling market overseas and, in the process, save money by using as much cheap labor over there as they possibly can so they can sell competitevly in America. There really isn't anything can be done to prevent outsourcing. Even if you could, you can say goodbye to your 50$ dvd players and 100$ microwaves. The cost of products would skyrocket and everyone would feel the blow. The best you can hope for is that new jobs are created when our current jobs are outsourced - if they aren't created, then obviously our economy will shrink and people will buy less, creating disinterest in foreign products and possibly increasing job opportunities again. If your'e really worried, get a government job - those can't be outsourced. Like we'd let Eastern India deal with our taxes and census information lol. Besides, who really wants to be a telemarketer anyway? Did you know Allstate Insurance outsources to Ireland for tech support? That was the most pleasant tech support service I ever got //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
Actually it's funny you bring up india. We are outsourcing accounting and tax info to India. Which is raising a major concern for identity theft. Although these companies may be given the name International they are primarily an american company. It's still an american owned company but they hire the people working overseas because they're cheap. My main concern is that not all americans will be able to do more technical jobs that are offered in america. This is where my theory of a more Socialist society will come into play in order to support these people. I think america has some major issues that it will be facing in the future. I don't blame Bush for the outsourcing as this is a corporate decision. I believe there must be international laws put in place to make trade more fair. Currently I feel employees and manufacturers in the US are at a huge disadvantage.

 
My view on outsourcing. It is the consumers fault. If (not all consumers) a lot of consumers were not so tight with their money, they would spend an extra $1 and purchase American made products of those of foreign products. By purchasing more, then the companies production would increase, creating more jobs, and lowering the prices. This is a way to help out American companies, BUY THEIR PRODUCTS!!!!. Don't complain about how everything is made in China, and then go and buy the product. If you don't like outsourcing, buy American products.

But there is a problem that occurs even here. Few US companies produce a product in america.

 
Here's what I don't get. Iraq is a win win situation. So Bush says he has received intelligence that Iraq is a danger. So let's say that he was given information that was not that accurate. Why blame Bush? Everyone agreed after hearing the info that we should go in. I think rather than blame Bush we should say hey, maybe our intelligence isn't as accurate or up to date as we think. But look at it from another standpoint. According to records he had weapons. We found some chemical weapons, not nearly as much as we thought we would but we did. Also remember it has been estimated that he has taken over 500,000 lives. So we got saddam out, which I think is rather impressive. THis saved some lives. Next we find the oil for food program was not working as planned as saddam was not getting the food to the people. I can't remember the exact details of the next statement but it seems like he had a pipeline that we didn't know about where he was selling some oil for money. Ofcourse the money was not going to the people. The power was going primarily to baghdad so the outskirts received little electricity. More people have electricity and water. Both are being spread more equally among the people. The people of Iraq are now being given a huge oppertunity to change their nation.

So call me optimistic, but I didn't see much to lose in going into Iraq.

I will say I didn't like the way Bush fought the war. He was entirely too soft.

I do like the plan of marshall law.

As I believe someone said earlier, I have never seen anyone get blame for so many things. Some soldiers behaved incorrectly. Bush gets blamed. I don't see the logic. That's like a police officer abusing his power and then people wanting the governor of the state to be kicked out.

I will say Bush has gotten me very pissed off in his stance on certain things and the way he has handled certain things, but I don't believe he has done anything that deserves the worst president ever. He's had a really hard term. He's constantly getting bashed. The economy was tanking as he took office 9/11 happens and he has to decide how to straighten out the economy and what he should do with 9/11. 9/11 has never happened to america. The military wasn't attacked but rather the citizens of the country were. Right now we are taking out terrorists that are fighting against us in Iraq and yet americans are pissed. We are taking out people that are a danger to all civilized nations that don't want to follow the islamic radicals and nations are pissed off.

9/11 was planned well before Bush took office but hey let's give him all the blame. I'd say we got soft. We allowed the terrorist to do their thing and it finally came back and bit us. We must improve intelligence and we will always be fighting against terrorist for as long as the country is standing, unless we decide to just let terrorist go. Then we'll have a nation that has bombs and deaths constantly like the middle east.

 
I think Bush is getting yanked around too much by the people around him. If he wasn't I'm sure he wouldn't seem so bad to some people. As a person, I don't think he's a bad guy. I just think he needs to firm up his stances.

 
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