Menu
Forum
General Car Audio
Subwoofers
Speakers
Amplifiers
Head Units
Car Audio Build Logs
Wiring, Electrical and Installation
Enclosure Design & Construction
Car Audio Classifieds
Home Audio
Off-topic Discussion
The Lounge
What's new
Search forums
Gallery
New media
New comments
Search media
Members
Registered members
Current visitors
Classifieds Member Feedback
SHOP
Shop Head Units
Shop Amplifiers
Shop Speakers
Shop Subwoofers
Shop eBay Car Audio
Log in / Register
Forum
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
Log in / Join
What’s new
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
General Car Audio
Subwoofers
Speakers
Amplifiers
Head Units
Car Audio Build Logs
Wiring, Electrical and Installation
Enclosure Design & Construction
Car Audio Classifieds
Home Audio
Off-topic Discussion
The Lounge
What's new
Search forums
Menu
Reply to thread
Forum
Off-topic Discussion
The Lounge
Fahrenheit 9/11
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Message
<blockquote data-quote="badm0f0" data-source="post: 469682" data-attributes="member: 546069"><p>Heres my rant on the subject... sorry its so long</p><p></p><p>To my Republican Friends who have still not switched and are fuming at Michael Moore right now:</p><p></p><p>To those who criticize Michael Moore and jump on the GOP right wing hack wagon of labeling every dissenter unpatriotic and politically motivated, you sorely miss the point of this brilliant work. Before you go scouring google to find some like-minded enraged conservative zealot to articulately denounce this movie and call it factually wrong …consider the actual POINT of the movie and understand WHY it resonates with SO MANY people around the globe and WHY it will likely set all sorts of new movie records in the coming months. WE are tired of being LIED to about WHY this administration went to war. This movie, is an attempt at healthy dialogue in a very polarized and divisive America. See the movie and tell us WHY this agenda is CORRECT and how it is ultimately helping us. Tell us why we needed to invade Iraq and why it is a healthy use of a trillion dollars…Don't further polarize and divide the country and world as Bush and Cheney have so effectively done.</p><p></p><p>You criticize the movie because it's slanted? DUH You criticize it because it makes leaps and infers paranoid conclusions at times (perhaps bush wakes up and thinks more about the Saudis then us…Moore's light humor)…do you really NEED another person drawing your own conclusions for you? Are you angry that his conclusions based on the record are different than yours? Do you object to his First Amendment right to voice his opinion in protest of our un-elected President? He gives you his evidence and draws a conclusion. Ummm…watch Fox news…they do every day but report it as "fair and balanced NEWS" not a documentary. He NEVER pretends to be balanced news…to the contrary, he's on TV everyday denouncing Bush (and even has denounced Kerry)</p><p></p><p>Here's my simple take on it. We know Bush LIED. The whole world knows Bush LIED. You would have to be a moron not to know by June 25,2004 that Bush took us to war on false and intentionally deceptive "intelligence." Did he plot this with the Saudis? Who knows. Doubtful…but there are clear questions that deserve public discourse which this un-elected President has intentionally NOT engaged in. Why haven't we focused efforts on Saudi Arabia? 19 of the 21 hijackers were from there. Clear links (as opposed to fabricated links) have been established between the Saudi government and private al quaeda charities…just like clear links exist between Bush and his father and the Bin Ladens. Either way…when you come out and decide we will allocate the forces of the US Military, thousands of young lives (and their blood), hundreds of billions of dollars (read: requiring social cutbacks in education and every other domestic priority), waging a war on an Arab country with Christian troops which will ultimately risk turning moderates into terrorist radicals (even more so than our current lack of credibility in the Israel conflict)…then you **** well better 1) have the goods on the country and leaders you target and 2) you better do what it takes to win and control the situation once you win.</p><p></p><p>Hey…IF Iraq IS behind 9-11, I don't think a person in America would object to his actions as he would still be sitting at his post 9-11 93% approval rating.</p><p></p><p>This movie enrages people who get caught up debating the little details, his innuendos, even his humor …the Saudis couldn't do it! Bush deserves vacations! Sadaam was really mean! Moore misquotes people! Blah blah blah…and they miss the point. Are we, as Britney Spears suggests, supposed to give carte blanche authority to our un-elected President and NOT demand accountability? Does anyone really believe there were WMDs in Iraq? That we had a plan to win the hearts and minds? That we were justified in ignoring the pleas of UN Weapons inspectors and the International Community and rush into this quagmire that Dubya and his cabinet labeled a "clear and present danger"?</p><p></p><p>In my opinion, Moore could have been 10,000 times MORE harsh to Dubya. He barely even mentions the prisoner abuse scandals that have basically undercut our ENTIRE moral authority and done more to spark terrorism than anything we did in the hundred years pre war. He doesn't really even give us a cost benefit analysis of how this war of misallocated funds has damaged Americans at home etc…and he barely skims the surface of but a handful of Dubya scandals and known incompetent handling of matters…all he asks is "Are we sending our troops into harms way for a justified cause?" This is a dialogue that came too late in the 70s and cost us 60,000 American lives and one that we **** well better be asking ourselves NOW. I call this movie the most important of our time because this election IS the most important one of our lifetime and one we should enter into with an EDUCATED electorate. I don't mind a person seeing the movie, disagreeing with the conclusions and defending Bush…I object to blind cowards who object to the movie, SCARED that by seeing it they may actually LEARN something about their President that they don't like! In other words, rather than following Cheney and yelling the "f-bomb" at your fellow citizens…educate and PERSUADE…the movie is healthy and brilliant because after 4 years of Bush, we finally have a real platform on which to debate the sanity of his decision making…the Prosecution has spoken…now feel free to defend his record.</p><p></p><p>Bush took us to war. Should he have attacked Iraq? Was it a clear and present danger? Did he do everything he could have done to prevent it? Did he send enough troops and support and where did those troops come from? Did Bush tactically use fear campaigns to push a pre-planned right wing social agenda? Is the so-called patriot act a justified response? These are the simple questions raised by the movie and remember… his points are made mostly by actual Bush film footage….the justifications for war are from Bush HIMSELF, Rice, Cheney and Powell…its not Moore taking artistic liberties…rather, a collection of clips and segments from the White House itself leading up to war, clips from actual soldiers in the war, and Moore himself with his simple style of Socratic questioning of Congressmen regarding their understanding of the agenda they are passing and whether they are willing to permit their loved ones fight in a war they are so quick to commit other's children to.</p><p></p><p>Answer the film's simple questions…don't waste your time on "Michael Moore is a biased guy and this film is unpatriotic" Of course there is Moore's brilliant trademark humor in it. However, Moore's audience is pretty well-educated…and I believe able to divorce Moore's sarcastic quips and one-liners from a valid attack on Bush's policies. I still laugh (although its quite sad) every time I see the clip and can hear Moore talking about how Bush spent 8 minutes after the second plane hit, without anyone to coach him, reading "My Pet Goat"</p><p></p><p>Don't get bogged down with Moore's dislike of Dubya and allow blind loyalty cloud your judgment either. This film Is patriotic…the film is SO explosive, brilliant and well-received right now because SO MANY of us in this great country feel it has been hijacked by an unelected man with a disgusting agenda and one who is pushing our country irreparably in the wrong direction…and this film merely gives US a voice. And hopefully that voice will be heard loud and clear in November.</p><p></p><p>:thumbsupw</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="badm0f0, post: 469682, member: 546069"] Heres my rant on the subject... sorry its so long To my Republican Friends who have still not switched and are fuming at Michael Moore right now: To those who criticize Michael Moore and jump on the GOP right wing hack wagon of labeling every dissenter unpatriotic and politically motivated, you sorely miss the point of this brilliant work. Before you go scouring google to find some like-minded enraged conservative zealot to articulately denounce this movie and call it factually wrong …consider the actual POINT of the movie and understand WHY it resonates with SO MANY people around the globe and WHY it will likely set all sorts of new movie records in the coming months. WE are tired of being LIED to about WHY this administration went to war. This movie, is an attempt at healthy dialogue in a very polarized and divisive America. See the movie and tell us WHY this agenda is CORRECT and how it is ultimately helping us. Tell us why we needed to invade Iraq and why it is a healthy use of a trillion dollars…Don't further polarize and divide the country and world as Bush and Cheney have so effectively done. You criticize the movie because it's slanted? DUH You criticize it because it makes leaps and infers paranoid conclusions at times (perhaps bush wakes up and thinks more about the Saudis then us…Moore's light humor)…do you really NEED another person drawing your own conclusions for you? Are you angry that his conclusions based on the record are different than yours? Do you object to his First Amendment right to voice his opinion in protest of our un-elected President? He gives you his evidence and draws a conclusion. Ummm…watch Fox news…they do every day but report it as "fair and balanced NEWS" not a documentary. He NEVER pretends to be balanced news…to the contrary, he's on TV everyday denouncing Bush (and even has denounced Kerry) Here's my simple take on it. We know Bush LIED. The whole world knows Bush LIED. You would have to be a moron not to know by June 25,2004 that Bush took us to war on false and intentionally deceptive "intelligence." Did he plot this with the Saudis? Who knows. Doubtful…but there are clear questions that deserve public discourse which this un-elected President has intentionally NOT engaged in. Why haven't we focused efforts on Saudi Arabia? 19 of the 21 hijackers were from there. Clear links (as opposed to fabricated links) have been established between the Saudi government and private al quaeda charities…just like clear links exist between Bush and his father and the Bin Ladens. Either way…when you come out and decide we will allocate the forces of the US Military, thousands of young lives (and their blood), hundreds of billions of dollars (read: requiring social cutbacks in education and every other domestic priority), waging a war on an Arab country with Christian troops which will ultimately risk turning moderates into terrorist radicals (even more so than our current lack of credibility in the Israel conflict)…then you **** well better 1) have the goods on the country and leaders you target and 2) you better do what it takes to win and control the situation once you win. Hey…IF Iraq IS behind 9-11, I don't think a person in America would object to his actions as he would still be sitting at his post 9-11 93% approval rating. This movie enrages people who get caught up debating the little details, his innuendos, even his humor …the Saudis couldn't do it! Bush deserves vacations! Sadaam was really mean! Moore misquotes people! Blah blah blah…and they miss the point. Are we, as Britney Spears suggests, supposed to give carte blanche authority to our un-elected President and NOT demand accountability? Does anyone really believe there were WMDs in Iraq? That we had a plan to win the hearts and minds? That we were justified in ignoring the pleas of UN Weapons inspectors and the International Community and rush into this quagmire that Dubya and his cabinet labeled a "clear and present danger"? In my opinion, Moore could have been 10,000 times MORE harsh to Dubya. He barely even mentions the prisoner abuse scandals that have basically undercut our ENTIRE moral authority and done more to spark terrorism than anything we did in the hundred years pre war. He doesn't really even give us a cost benefit analysis of how this war of misallocated funds has damaged Americans at home etc…and he barely skims the surface of but a handful of Dubya scandals and known incompetent handling of matters…all he asks is "Are we sending our troops into harms way for a justified cause?" This is a dialogue that came too late in the 70s and cost us 60,000 American lives and one that we **** well better be asking ourselves NOW. I call this movie the most important of our time because this election IS the most important one of our lifetime and one we should enter into with an EDUCATED electorate. I don't mind a person seeing the movie, disagreeing with the conclusions and defending Bush…I object to blind cowards who object to the movie, SCARED that by seeing it they may actually LEARN something about their President that they don't like! In other words, rather than following Cheney and yelling the "f-bomb" at your fellow citizens…educate and PERSUADE…the movie is healthy and brilliant because after 4 years of Bush, we finally have a real platform on which to debate the sanity of his decision making…the Prosecution has spoken…now feel free to defend his record. Bush took us to war. Should he have attacked Iraq? Was it a clear and present danger? Did he do everything he could have done to prevent it? Did he send enough troops and support and where did those troops come from? Did Bush tactically use fear campaigns to push a pre-planned right wing social agenda? Is the so-called patriot act a justified response? These are the simple questions raised by the movie and remember… his points are made mostly by actual Bush film footage….the justifications for war are from Bush HIMSELF, Rice, Cheney and Powell…its not Moore taking artistic liberties…rather, a collection of clips and segments from the White House itself leading up to war, clips from actual soldiers in the war, and Moore himself with his simple style of Socratic questioning of Congressmen regarding their understanding of the agenda they are passing and whether they are willing to permit their loved ones fight in a war they are so quick to commit other's children to. Answer the film's simple questions…don't waste your time on "Michael Moore is a biased guy and this film is unpatriotic" Of course there is Moore's brilliant trademark humor in it. However, Moore's audience is pretty well-educated…and I believe able to divorce Moore's sarcastic quips and one-liners from a valid attack on Bush's policies. I still laugh (although its quite sad) every time I see the clip and can hear Moore talking about how Bush spent 8 minutes after the second plane hit, without anyone to coach him, reading "My Pet Goat" Don't get bogged down with Moore's dislike of Dubya and allow blind loyalty cloud your judgment either. This film Is patriotic…the film is SO explosive, brilliant and well-received right now because SO MANY of us in this great country feel it has been hijacked by an unelected man with a disgusting agenda and one who is pushing our country irreparably in the wrong direction…and this film merely gives US a voice. And hopefully that voice will be heard loud and clear in November. :thumbsupw [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forum
Off-topic Discussion
The Lounge
Fahrenheit 9/11
Top
Menu
What's new
Forum list
