Evil-ution

[soloXgt 10+ year member]

...most mutations go unnoticed since they mostly occur in non-translated parts of the genome in the "junk" DNA).

Technically, most genotype mutation are invisible and don't change the phenotype at all. I think you are getting confused here, let me clarify.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I do understand since you took what I told you and repeated it back to me. There's ^ the proof of that. ALL mutations are genotypic, no need to put anymore emphasis on that. Not all mutations are phenotypic. Why? Look at my quote above. When you talk about mutations, you must specify if these mutations are in translated regions or will have an effect on what regions will be translated due to the location and type (not just positive or negative, but say down to the nucleotide level determining which AA will replace the normal form) of the mutation. As for your cave example, what is the trait you are speaking of? having no eyes or having large eyes?

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

Im calling Bill Nye the Science Guy right now.

Too late, he's already on the internet

 

[cyn 10+ year member]

easy easy... If the bible is truth... adam an eve.. we would all be retarded and looking, acting and being like all the people from the movie The Hills Have Eyes. Doesn't take a smart person to know that in-breeding causes all sorts of effects and we would more than likely have never made it more than 3-5 generations.

Religion = crutch for weak minded people or people that have to be told how to live their own life, and then degrade everyone else because they are not of the same faith etc..

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I do understand since you took what I told you and repeated it back to me. There's ^ the proof of that. ALL MUTATIONS ARE GENOTYPIC. Not all mutations are phenotypic. Why? Look at my quote above. When you talk about mutations, you must specify if these mutations are in translated regions or will have an effect on what regions will be translated due to the location of the mutation. As for your cave example, what is the trait you are speaking of? having no eyes or having large eyes?

That's what I said! When I explained that I meant phenotypic mutations, you said I was wrong. As a rule MOST pheontypic mutations are negative, not neutral or positive. I'm speaking of no eyes. Bigger eyes constitute a positive mutation to gather more light. No eyes however is neutral since the thing wasn't using them in the dark.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

easy easy... If the bible is truth... adam an eve.. we would all be retarded and looking, acting and being like all the people from the movie The Hills Have Eyes. Doesn't take a smart person to know that in-breeding causes all sorts of effects and we would more than likely have never made it more than 3-5 generations.
Religion = crutch for weak minded people or people that have to be told how to live their own life, and then degrade everyone else because they are not of the same faith etc..

I like that your thinking this way, but there are a few reasons this might not entirely be true.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Negatory. A mutation could be non-neutral and be only genotypic or phenotypic. There are plenty of mutations that are genotypic but inexpressed as a phenotype. Think of all the recessive genes we have coded in genetic illnesses and traits that go unexpressed. The term "carrier" is a perfect example of that. Someone can have a genotypic mutation that goes inexpressed, only to have their offspring have both genotypic and phenotypic expressions of it.

You should really just get out. Your ignorance is annoying me. A carrier "BY DEFINITION" does not express the trait in the phenotype. If it's not expressed in the individual it's not non-neutral.

Is the mutation of the HBB gene positive or negative? Depends... if you only have one copy, you get immunity to malaria, 2 of them give you sickle cell. The advantage or disadvantage is described by the individual's success.

 

[destined2race 10+ year member]

Religion = crutch for weak minded people or people that have to be told how to live their own life, and then degrade everyone else because they are not of the same faith etc..

Well i cant agree with you there... i hear what your saying but the majority of the population believes in a supreme being of one form or another. So all the presidents, billionaires, royalty, business owners, etc... all are weak minded eh? And not all religious people act like that. I know there definately are a fair share and over history there have been insane amounts of crazy religious folks, cant deny that.

Ive been a catholic my whole life and we get a bad wrap, i even went to a private school when i was younger for a while but ive never acted the way you talk. Again i know theres a ton of stories about religious folks doing crazy things, but most people that ive been around that have true christian values are good people who donate time, give money to charities, help their communities and in general just try to pass on good values.

 

[soloXgt 10+ year member]

That's what I said! When I explained that I meant phenotypic mutations, you said I was wrong. As a rule MOST pheontypic mutations are negative, not neutral or positive. I'm speaking of no eyes. Bigger eyes constitute a positive mutation to gather more light. No eyes however is neutral since the thing wasn't using them in the dark.

Ur a trip. How is not having eyes just a neutral mutation? By not having eyes, other senses become stronger, less possible chance of injury (due to sight loss IF they had eyes), less cell replication resulting in LOWER chance of mutation. I can continue if you want me to.

And where the fuck does it say that "MOST pheontypic mutations are negative, not neutral or positive"?

 

[cyn 10+ year member]

Well i cant agree with you there... i hear what your saying but the majority of the population believes in a supreme being of one form or another. So all the presidents, billionaires, royalty, business owners, etc... all are weak minded eh? And not all religious people act like that. I know there definately are a fair share and over history there have been insane amounts of crazy religious folks, cant deny that.
Ive been a catholic my whole life and we get a bad wrap, i even went to a private school when i was younger for a while but ive never acted the way you talk. Again i know theres a ton of stories about religious folks doing crazy things, but most people that ive been around that have true christian values are good people who donate time, give money to charities, help their communities and in general just try to pass on good values.

I grew up in a family that was both Catholic and Baptist, went to church all that mess till I was 15 and seen how 90% of all Christians act. Yes there are a few that actually have good morals but I would say that is more of an up bringing than the church itself. I for one do not get into any kind of Organized Religion.

But my view is still the same, Church = Crutch for people

 

[wickedwitt 10+ year member]

You should really just get out. Your ignorance is annoying me. A carrier "BY DEFINITION" does not express the trait in the phenotype. If it's not expressed in the individual it's not non-neutral.
Is the mutation of the HBB gene positive or negative? Depends... if you only have one copy, you get immunity to malaria, 2 of them give you sickle cell. The advantage or disadvantage is described by the individual's success.

Why should I get out? All I've done is frustrate you because all you have been able to do whilst trying to prove me stupid is talk in circles. All while having multiple people prove pieces of your propagated expulsion incorrect, because you are so busy spewing fallacies because you overstep your own knowledge and the application of most of the principles you have discussed.

Ignorance is to be without knowledge, information, or education. Seeing as how you are the one that has been corrected numerous times, I'd say you are the only one thus far contributing that would fit that description. Unfortunately, it's always the ignorant ones that are so quick to state just how intelligent they are on subjects.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Ur a trip. How is not having eyes just a neutral mutation? By not having eyes, other senses become stronger, less possible chance of injury (due to sight loss IF they had eyes), less cell replication resulting in LOWER chance of mutation. I can continue if you want me to.And where the fuck does it say that "MOST pheontypic mutations are negative, not neutral or positive"?

That's a matter of definition. You are kinda trying to compare apples to oranges. The fact that they have increased senses is compensatory, And likely mutually exclusive from the mutation for lack of eyes.

What I'm trying to say is that if you were to take a species of frog, get thousands of eggs, and genetically engineer half to have non functional eyes. Then let them all grow in an environment with zero light. They would both compete equally. Genetic drift would likely eliminate one trait over enough time, but regardless, the trait is immediately neutral.

What you are talking about is another derived but mutually exclusive or evolved trait. The functions of the brain are dynamic. If you lose your eye function, those parts of the brain can be diminished while other parts are enhanced. Sometimes parts can switch function all together. Brain development is heavily dependent on feedback from stimuli. IE if you never use your eyes the visual cortex doesn't develop as well. If you never learn language you might have a smaller Broca's area. But loss of a sensory organ does not intrinsically strengthen other senses, the effect is circumstantial.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Why should I get out? All I've done is frustrate you because all you have been able to do whilst trying to prove me stupid is talk in circles. All while having multiple people prove pieces of your propagated expulsion incorrect, because you are so busy spewing fallacies because you overstep your own knowledge and the application of most of the principles you have discussed.
Ignorance is to be without knowledge, information, or education. Seeing as how you are the one that has been corrected numerous times, I'd say you are the only one thus far contributing that would fit that description. Unfortunately, it's always the ignorant ones that are so quick to state just how intelligent they are on subjects.

You wish. Apparently i'm just one of the only ones here who uses my brain. (Or has had a successful higher education in Biological Science?) The other guy essentially was on the right track until he started insinuating that cave lizards are the animal equivalent of comic book daredevils cause he thought I said something that he disagreed with..

 

[soloXgt 10+ year member]

ok so you have proven wrong one my numerous examples. what about the last question I asked?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

ok so you have proven wrong one my numerous examples. what about the last question I asked?

So we are clear, which question do you refer to?

 

[soloXgt 10+ year member]

Ur a trip. How is not having eyes just a neutral mutation? By not having eyes, other senses become stronger, less possible chance of injury (due to sight loss IF they had eyes), less cell replication resulting in LOWER chance of mutation. I can continue if you want me to.And where the fuck does it say that "MOST pheontypic mutations are negative, not neutral or positive"?

the last question....