Evil-ution

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Even when you are right, you make your argument look bad by being disrespectful. I know this thread is filled with insults from both sides, but really, you allow yourself to be dragged down into a schoolyard name calling contest far too easily.

 
Even when you are right, you make your argument look bad by being disrespectful. I know this thread is filled with insults from both sides, but really, you allow yourself to be dragged down into a schoolyard name calling contest far too easily.
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At some level, I love when people argue with me and stuff when I know they are wrong. I have a little troll in me I guess.

But let's face it, If I really expected a meaningful debate I wouldn't have started the thread the way I did.

My general philosophy to life is that wisdom is a delicate balance of faith and knowledge.

Let's face it, I don't know for sure that my chair won't collapse and turn me into a paraplegic. But to believe that aliens invented chairs, is a bit of a stretch too.

Religion (sometimes unintentionally) creates a dangerous rhetorical trap. If you can get someone to believe with absolute conviction that questioning a believe is bad, how would they ever know if that believe was wrong (even if it could be reasonably proved)?

Theories of cognitive dissonance deal with these scenarios and none of them paint pretty pictures.

 
The technology exists to prove, accurately, that the earth has existed longer than the bible claims. There is MUCH more evidence of evolution than there is of the garden of eden. You claim science relies on faith because it hasnt answered every question you can imagine, but science actually relies on us questioning everything in our environment, and science only calls something a fact once it has been proven. You mock the 'theory' of evolution because its not been 100% proven, yet at least science has the intellectual honesty to call it a theory. Walk into a church, mention the 'theory of jesus' or the 'theory of heaven' or the 'theory of God' and see what response you get. Religion has plenty of angles to come at this science versus religion debate, but you attempting to argue for it based on theories and proof is a really really lousy angle to chose, as science has a leg up on religion in that regard in virtually every way possible. It is, however, not surprising. Some time back some religious person got the idea that science relies on faith, just like religion, therefor they are equals intellectually. It sounds feasible when pro-religion spin is applied, such as you have attempted to in this thread. But the reality it's only logical to people with a bias towards wanting religion to be correct, even if it means ignoring truths that would suggest otherwise (like fossils, carbon dating, etc).
OK I wasn't going to post, but that statement is ENTIRELY false. There are three accepted beliefs when it comes to how long it took God to create the earth, two of which I am going to mention. There is the belief that it literally took God 7 days to create the earth and there is the belief that God took his time during creation. Realize that it never states a time frame.

Also, has anyone ever considered the possibility that God set evolution into motion? Not necessarily saying that I believe that, but why does everything have to be a hate on religion when it is perfectly plausible for science and faith to work together? Just sayin'.

 
Well, in the Bible it states that god created living things that rely on a light source before creating the light source. The dudes who wrote the Bible sure didn't think it through very well.
Really? Maybe you should go back and re-read. He made the 'greater light to govern the day' and the 'lesser light to govern the night' after vegetation. Not 'light'.

The 7 days are not 7 24 hour days. The Bible states a day to GOD is 1000 years.
The Bible says that 1000 years are like a day and a day like a 1000 years to God. No definition that it is 1000 years.

 
You can't support what you say with logic, or any verifiable facts that aren't based on this unverifiable "science". There is a funny truth to life. If something can't be verified by logic, it isn't true.
This is why I have a different opinion of "god " than most.

 
OK I wasn't going to post, but that statement is ENTIRELY false. There are three accepted beliefs when it comes to how long it took God to create the earth, two of which I am going to mention. There is the belief that it literally took God 7 days to create the earth and there is the belief that God took his time during creation. Realize that it never states a time frame.
Also, has anyone ever considered the possibility that God set evolution into motion? Not necessarily saying that I believe that, but why does everything have to be a hate on religion when it is perfectly plausible for science and faith to work together? Just sayin'.

"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: 2 Cor. 4.6 and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." - Genesis 1. The Holy Bible: King James Version.

If a day is like a 1000 years, and a 1000 years is like a day, why does the bible use an obviously irrelevant term like "7 days" at all? If we are going to say that even specific things written in the bible can be reinterpreted once science casts doubts on its content, is the bible an acceptable reference in any way at all?

If God set evolution in motion, once again the content in the bible is apparently completely false and irrelevant in any sort of fact based reference. Evolution and the story of creationism cannot coexist. One says whales and birds were among the first creatures to inhabit the Earth, the other proves there was a time creatures roamed the Earth long before whales or birds.

 
The technology exists to prove, accurately, that the earth has existed longer than the bible claims. There is MUCH more evidence of evolution than there is of the garden of eden. You claim science relies on faith because it hasnt answered every question you can imagine, but science actually relies on us questioning everything in our environment, and science only calls something a fact once it has been proven. You mock the 'theory' of evolution because its not been 100% proven, yet at least science has the intellectual honesty to call it a theory. Walk into a church, mention the 'theory of jesus' or the 'theory of heaven' or the 'theory of God' and see what response you get. Religion has plenty of angles to come at this science versus religion debate, but you attempting to argue for it based on theories and proof is a really really lousy angle to chose, as science has a leg up on religion in that regard in virtually every way possible. It is, however, not surprising. Some time back some religious person got the idea that science relies on faith, just like religion, therefor they are equals intellectually. It sounds feasible when pro-religion spin is applied, such as you have attempted to in this thread. But the reality it's only logical to people with a bias towards wanting religion to be correct, even if it means ignoring truths that would suggest otherwise (like fossils, carbon dating, etc).
You cannot stay on topic. This is not a comparison of science vs religion. Quote where I said anything about religion, or 6000 years etc. You can't do it because I didn't other than to say that you elitists are hypocrites for putting one down as being crazy because it cannot be proved, yet wholeheartedly believing in the other which also cannot be proved. You have framed an entire argument based on an assumption for the second time in a row with me. The fact remains that the theory of evolution relies on the theory that everything evolved from 1 organism as stated by darwin. This process took millions and millions of years according to darwin. There is no way to prove or substantiate that. The 6000 years in the Bible isn't relevant. i didn't argue that... so framing an argument around that to "show" me shows just how strong your irrelevant and incompetent argument is. There is circumstantial evidence when looking at DNA that everything is related. Of course people infer what they want from that. I say if you're using the same building blocks but just swapping them around to make completely different things, so obviously everything will share similar traits. It does not mean they all evolved from the same organism. That's quite a leap.... but those of you who think you're smarter than you actually are believe that making that assumption makes you infinitely more intelligent than people who would like more evidence. That is no more crazy than assuming that since everything on earth is made from the same elements that it all came from the same thing. It's the exact same logic, yet you "intelligent" scoff at it. I'm not defending it. I'm just using irrefutable logic to prove how your elitist "we know it even though it isn't prove but that isn't the same as faith" attitudes are absurd. Science is about proving things, testing and getting results that support the theory. That can't be done with evolution. It's just a bunch of people going "hey look at that... that coincidence must prove it right?" and there isn't a lick of difference between that rationale and religion. It's just faith. You say it's crazy to believe in a God when people cannot prove it. You're a hypocrite because you believe in something that is just based on circumstantial assumptions also.

 
You cannot stay on topic. This is not a comparison of science vs religion. Quote where I said anything about religion, or 6000 years etc. You can't do it because I didn't. You have framed an entire argument based on an assumption for the second time in a row with me. The fact remains that the theory of evolution relies on the theory that everything evolved from 1 organism as stated by darwin. This process took millions and millions of years according to darwin. There is no way to prove or substantiate that. There is circumstantial evidence when looking at DNA that everything is related. Of course people infer what they want from that. I say if you're using the same building blocks but just swapping them around to make completely different things, so obviously everything will share similar traits. It does not mean they all evolved from the same organism. That's quite a leap.... but those of you who think you're smarter than you actually are believe that making that assumption makes you infinitely more intelligent than people who would like more evidence. Science is about proving things, testing and getting results that support the theory. That can't be done with evolution. It's just a bunch of people going "hey look at that... that must prove it right?" and there isn't a lick of difference between that rationale and religion. It's just faith. You say it's crazy to believe in a God when people cannot prove it. You're a hypocrite because you believe in something that is just based on circumstantial assumptions.
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A plumber got into an argument with Hawking over the issue "Can we ever retrieve data from a Black Hole or is gone forever?" The plumber won, it will take an insurmountable amount of equations. But we can find out what planet fell into it. I'm sure we can figure out where we evolved from.

Non-Theists ≥ Deists > Theists. Get over it.

But to comment on the whole faith thing. I would rather believe deGrasse (the gif), Sagan, even Dawkins over some smelly hut people from 1500 B.C.

 
Really? Maybe you should go back and re-read. He made the 'greater light to govern the day' and the 'lesser light to govern the night' after vegetation. Not 'light'.

The Bible says that 1000 years are like a day and a day like a 1000 years to God. No definition that it is 1000 years.
You're arguing a lost cause here.

Explain to me how there's light with no light source?

Supposedly god created plants on day three, and the sun on day 4. On the first day god supposedly created light and separated it from darkness...but with no light source you're going to have to assume that god kept the universe lit for a few thousand years until he decided to give in and create a light source on day 4 to do it for him. If god didn't do it that way, then plants living for 1000 years with no light source seems plausible, right? It's obvious that the creators of the Bible were working with limited knowledge of the world and how it worked, so there's no surprise that with today's knowledge we can point out a lot of flaws in the Bible.

 
Ok, well that's great and maybe true. But The only positive mutation I can think of is sickle-cell. Name 5 genetically inherited advantages that have appeared independently in the last 1000 years. I'm sure there are 5, but damned if I know many people who could name them off the top of their heads. On the other-hand, the list of first-generation emergent disorders and cancers is in the billions. I really don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this. If one out of a thousand possible changes are positive, why can't you believe random changes would be most likely negative?
Common cold, HIV, delta 32 allele, and most incurable bacterial/viral infection. I know not 5 but those are BEYOND perfect examples of positive mutations. As for billions of people getting cancer, cancer is inevitable considering the shortening of telomeres after each cell replication. EVERYONE will get cancer sooner or later, so most of your arguments of cancer are irrelevant. And getting cancer can also be an evolutionary advantage, not for the individual, but of the species

 
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