Ethical traders Vs Scamming pondscum traders


Status
Not open for further replies.

amorsh

N33tFr34k
10+ year member
May 20, 2006
136
0
Nor. California
Great guidelines prowler!

Hopefully this will help cut down on some scamming here, which has been part of my downfall in buying from this forum as of lately.

Something smells wrong about it (either the price is too cheap, or the whole deal is suspicious to me), but sometimes those can be the really nice deals, that you catch before anyone else does too.

Good luck, and once again, great job of putting it all together.

 

mtdewelf

addicted
10+ year member
Mar 19, 2006
2,803
1
vancouver, WA
You have internet access obviously so it should not be difficult at all to have a look around and get a good feel of what failr market value is for something.
eBay is a great resource for this ~

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
i usually check ebay, but like my last amp(jl e2150) there weren't any listings for one on there. i figured out to start looking at the completed listings so now no prob.

 

Prowler573

R.I.P. Gossamer!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
May 17, 2005
18,973
115
Northwest Louisiana
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Great guidelines prowler!
Hopefully this will help cut down on some scamming here, which has been part of my downfall in buying from this forum as of lately.

Something smells wrong about it (either the price is too cheap, or the whole deal is suspicious to me), but sometimes those can be the really nice deals, that you catch before anyone else does too.

Good luck, and once again, great job of putting it all together.
Thank you and thank you.

You're right. Sometimes you can fall upon something that is a really good deal that somehow it escaped the attention of the rest of the vultures but more often than not those deals get under the radar because of a listing error on the part of the seller. Like the item's title was spelled wrong. It was listed in the wrong category. There is little to no item description because the seller doesn't know what they have. Things like that which are pretty obvious which are the scams and which are flawed auctions b/c the seller is uninformed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

snb778

blaugh!!!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
Oct 8, 2004
8,372
4
ex. Los Angeles, CA

Prowler573

R.I.P. Gossamer!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
May 17, 2005
18,973
115
Northwest Louisiana
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
snb778, learn to close your tags properly, please. If you've never read one then by your own admission you're only here in this thread to post whore. Please see your way clear of continuing to do so or I will report the posts. It would appear ^^^^^ that I have moderator cooperation in keeping this thread clean. Thank you for understanding.

Would it be possible to maybe automatically stick this as a link in every for sale ad?People dont read the stickys.......as an example, view the recent group buy thread- most people were unaware that group buys were not allowed.

Just an idea.
I don't know that I would agree to this having to be linked to in every FS thread. I might link to it in every one of my FS threads as I think it is worth reading and it is my thread. But requiring everyone else to link to it as well I cannot see as being reasonable.

Oh...and to no one reads the stickies? The viewcount vs. the actual posts would suggest otherwise. Besides...you were in here long enough to read then post. Are you PWing as well? As to the group buy thing it has been disallowed for longer than I have been registered here. It is only here of late that it has been strictly enforced, wouldn't you say?

 

snb778

blaugh!!!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
Oct 8, 2004
8,372
4
ex. Los Angeles, CA
I understand... Im not here to post ***** though. I honestly dont even know where the stickies are

sorry for the tag. Tried to delete part of a quote, i dunno how it did that. i thought I just deleted text.

 

ConcernedMember

******
10+ year member
Jun 1, 2006
2,067
12
Around
I think we need an optional service when selling/buying. A middle man to hold the money with predetermined terms and conditions. Say for instance A is buying an amp from B for $300. B has been on the forum for a little while, but A is slightly concerned because he is putting up $300. B knows that he is a good man and true to his word, so he agrees with A to use the middle man service and pays a small fee (split by both parties). So before they use the service some guidelines are drawn out and the two agree to them. So finally B ships the amp to A and everything goes smooth. Middle man then sends B the money.

Scenario 2: There is a problem with shipping and B is making up excuses as to why the amp isn't there. A requests his money back and gets a full refund.

Scenario 3: The amp arrives to A and it is damaged. Because B provided pics of the amp before, the middle man follows the terms and conditions agreed upon

Scenario 4: The amp arrives to A and it does not work. Middle man follows terms and conditions agreed upon.

It would take sometime to get the system working properly where both individuals are 100% satisfied, but by researching all the possible problems with transactions in the past, I'm sure this service could cover just about every scenario that pops up.

 

Prowler573

R.I.P. Gossamer!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
May 17, 2005
18,973
115
Northwest Louisiana
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
I think it is an incredibly valid idea. In theory it sounds great, CM. Getting it implemented could prove problematic and getting both parties involved in any given trade to agree to a non-involved third party might be a bit of a task as well.

 

mtdewelf

addicted
10+ year member
Mar 19, 2006
2,803
1
vancouver, WA
GREAT plan but execution would be nearly impossible, not to mention that the seller could claim that merchandise was not damaged upon shipping and try to make middle man look like scammer. Also middle man could really cause some chaos if decides to go scammer. I mean King was somebuddy that before he went south might have been taken into consideration for middle man.

 

Prowler573

R.I.P. Gossamer!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
May 17, 2005
18,973
115
Northwest Louisiana
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
GREAT plan but execution would be nearly impossible, not to mention that the seller could claim that merchandise was not damaged upon shipping and try to make middle man look like scammer. Also middle man could really cause some chaos if decides to go scammer. I mean King was somebuddy that before he went south might have been taken into consideration for middle man.
The only way the middleman could become a scammer is if they do not send the money to the proper recipient. Outside of that the middleman would never actually take possession of or have access to the gear being sold. There would be no way to attribute fault for the item(s) being in less-than-advertised condition to the 3rd party.

 

ConcernedMember

******
10+ year member
Jun 1, 2006
2,067
12
Around
GREAT plan but execution would be nearly impossible, not to mention that the seller could claim that merchandise was not damaged upon shipping and try to make middle man look like scammer. Also middle man could really cause some chaos if decides to go scammer. I mean King was somebuddy that before he went south might have been taken into consideration for middle man.
The middle man would consist of at least 2 well established members.

 

mtdewelf

addicted
10+ year member
Mar 19, 2006
2,803
1
vancouver, WA
The middle man would consist of at least 2 well established members.
even then, ANYONE can be swayed. I personally would do it w/o a doubt, just stating the facts. Over days/weeks etc. someone can basically be a different person with different morals. No question that peoples beliefs change little by little daily, mostly for the better but WHAT IF's are very important in something like this. My main concern would be for the middle men actually being "attacked" by seller or possibly buyer. Either party can lie and try to pin on middle man, this is where we have the problem becuase to eliminate scam by blaming middle man we have to never doubt.

Basically to fix the only real problem(blamage of middle man) we possibly create another

 

Prowler573

R.I.P. Gossamer!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
May 17, 2005
18,973
115
Northwest Louisiana
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
even then, ANYONE can be swayed. I personally would do it w/o a doubt, just stating the facts. Over days/weeks etc. someone can basically be a different person with different morals. No question that peoples beliefs change little by little daily, mostly for the better but WHAT IF's are very important in something like this. My main concern would be for the middle men actually being "attacked" by seller or possibly buyer. Either party can lie and try to pin on middle man, this is where we have the problem becuase to eliminate scam by blaming middle man we have to never doubt.
Basically to fix the only real problem(blamage of middle man) we possibly create another
Those are very valid points but the inbuilt protection there is that the "middleman/men/whatever you care to call them" never actually has their hands on the product. All they are doing is holding the money until the buyer is satisfied with their purchase. Where I think Phat is trying to go with this wouldn't leave too much (if any) wiggle room for the 3rd Party escrow facilitators for abuse. As they would never have their hands on the actual product(s) being traded the onus for proof of reasonable displeasure regarding said products would lay initially on the buyer.

It would go something like this:

A thorough review of the thread in which the item(s) were originally sold would have to be made to see in what condition the item(s) were presented for sale.

The buyer would then have to provide some form of proof that the condition the items were advertised to have been in isn't the condition in which they arrived on the doorstep of the buyer. Assuming said proof was reasonably provided then it would be up to the seller to somehow prove that the unsatisfactory condition that said purchase arrived in was, in fact, not how that purchase departed the seller's immediate control.

I would not at all feel comfortable with being a Judge, Jury, and Executioner so to speak were there a dispute to arise. I think demanding that both the buyer and seller be a part of that mediation process in the event of some kind of dispute would largely eliminate the possibility of the 3rd Party enacting any sort of abuse or favoritism. Certainly there are bugs to be worked out before the proposal is presented to Goob and/or the moderation team but I do genuinely believe that Phat and I are on the right track with the idea in general. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I greatly appreciate your input as well. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

mtdewelf

addicted
10+ year member
Mar 19, 2006
2,803
1
vancouver, WA
Good idea, it's just not going to happen.
nG
working on a deal right now that we are going to be using a middle man, i think.

Maybe it won't be a forum "rule" to do it but if more of an option.

 

Prowler573

R.I.P. Gossamer!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
May 17, 2005
18,973
115
Northwest Louisiana
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
working on a deal right now that we are going to be using a middle man, i think.
Maybe it won't be a forum "rule" to do it but if more of an option.
ConcernedMember and I have no desire to make it compulsory to use this 3rd Party service that we are proposing but rather offer it as an option if one or both parties involved in any given trade has any degree of uncertainty about going ahead with the deal.

Requiring it to be used would be nothing short of ludicrous. As I clearly outlined in the opening post to this thread the percentage of ethical transactions going on here vs the ones that would or should cause someone to take pause is considerably higher (thankfully).

It is these exceptions to the rule for which we would offer a 3rd Party escrow-type service.

 

bamaboy

War Eagle!!!
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
Oct 31, 2004
7,454
8
Auburn, Alabama
alot of buying, all you have to do is use common sense, which im sure most people are aware that for some people on here its limited

 

mtdewelf

addicted
10+ year member
Mar 19, 2006
2,803
1
vancouver, WA
ConcernedMember and I have no desire to make it compulsory to use this 3rd Party service that we are proposing but rather offer it as an option if one or both parties involved in any given trade has any degree of uncertainty about going ahead with the deal.
Requiring it to be used would be nothing short of ludicrous. As I clearly outlined in the opening post to this thread the percentage of ethical transactions going on here vs the ones that would or should cause someone to take pause is considerably higher (thankfully).

It is these exceptions to the rule for which we would offer a 3rd Party escrow-type service.
my comment was for ngsm since he said it's a good idea but won't happen. It WILL happen but the problem will be that some newer people won't know the difference from reputable people from the people with high post count. In my deal we are going to use nick from SI and have no worries.

Honestly i wasn't clear on CM and your details but now that i understand i see small problems that are possible but nothing like what's happening now.

 

o. l. t.

The Audio Whisperer
10+ year member
Jul 11, 2006
1,344
3
Early 90's
I am very surprised to see no one has mentioned using a local. The interweb is nation wide and I have used a local many times to check merchandise. It may cost you $20 to bribe a local (or just to be nice //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif and give them a few bucks), but I've given $20 before to have a reputable forum local member check out a product, especially if expensive.

If Joe Blow has an amp for $400 and Jim Local is an established member and can check it out, $20 is dang good insurance on a $400 purchase.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)



Newest threads

Most posts - Past 30 days

Latest classifieds