Ensolite recommended?

[Rudy 10+ year member]

No, you're right. I thought you implied the 1 lb/sqft mass loaded materials. Maybe you've never installed a barrier in a car???????????????

Yeah, that's it. I've never installed a barrier in a car. Two layers of mat on top of foam is would be comparable to a 1 lb/ft² MLV layer or it might even be more effective since the adhesive/foil/adhesive/foil layers present a less homogeneous path. I don't know, I've just used MLV foam composites because they are much more convenient and probably less expensive. Regardless, you still need to control panel resonance before you worry about how you will configure your barriers.

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

Would two layers of Rammat followed by a layer of Luxury Liner be a step in the right direction?

Forgive the ignorance, all this acoustical talk is a bit over my head.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

That suggests an open cell foam would be better at absorbing, as it would allow the sound waves to enter it easier. Makes sense... but wouldn't that also mean its easier for the sound waves to escape as well?
That article talks about using absorptive foam in conjunction with a barrier to alter frequency effects. Clearly they are suggesting there is more to the foam layer than simply as a decoupler.

Absorbing sound in a car, at least in the areas we are talking about - doors, floors, etc., is a losing proposition. It's just not possible to place a thick enough absorber in those areas to have any meaningful impact. If you had the space for a 1" thick absorber, you'd have almost no impact below 3.4 kHz. Under the dash, in the quarter panels, maybe between the headliner and the roof you might have enough space to accomplish something.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Would two layers of Rammat followed by a layer of Luxury Liner be a step in the right direction?
Forgive the ignorance, all this acoustical talk is a bit over my head.

That's the best approach to preventing noise from getting from outside the passenger compartment to your ears.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Would two layers of Rammat followed by a layer of Luxury Liner be a step in the right direction?
Forgive the ignorance, all this acoustical talk is a bit over my head.

I always say that application is probably worth around 20 dB of noise reduction at 250hz. It's going off the structure-borne noise reduction and the transmission loss performance of your avg barrier decoupler product. Keep in mind that 10 dB is half as loud to the human ear.

Actual testing of the substrate and everything that's involved might be different. Needless to say, barrier performance can be predicted using a simple math equation. Once you get into absorption and everything else, then it becomes very difficult to model it out. This is where independently tested materials are valuable.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

What are your thoughts on CAE's...
VB2-HD

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=268-268

or

VB4.5

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=268-274

nG

VB2-HD is an extensional damper. Google "Constrained layer damping vs extensional damping" for the relative advantages.

VB 4.5 is either the same as or virtually identical to Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro and the barrier FoxPro sells.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

VB 4.5 is either the same as or virtually identical to Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro and the barrier FoxPro sells.

In function and STC almost, but it's not the same thing. Anyone that's used both will tell you that.

VB-4 is made from higher quality materials and also more flexible by comparison. A limp barrier pad will be easier to install and will also slightly outperform a stiffer barrier pad.

And just for the record, I discontinued the sale of all my products a few months ago. I have nothing to gain by offering this information other than helping others to not make the same mistakes I've made. Anyone want to take a ride in my car or hear me go along and tap panels that are covered with these and other materials? Common over! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

In function and STC almost, but it's not the same thing. Anyone that's used both will tell you that.
VB-4 is made from higher quality materials and also more flexible by comparison. A limp barrier pad will be easier to install and will also slightly outperform a stiffer barrier pad.

That's true. I have a piece of each in my hands and the VB 4.5 has a slightly more flexible mass layer and a coarser foam. Never compared them side by side before.

 

[ultimate157 5,000+ posts]

Does the VB4 outperform the Luxury Liner enough to justify the 1.88x in price?

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Does the VB4 outperform the Luxury Liner enough to justify the 1.88x in price?

You'd have to contact Second Skin and ask for the specs and compare them to the numbers on Cascade's site. Cascade's foam has more air in it - a good thing, but I have no idea how much difference it will make.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Does the VB4 outperform the Luxury Liner enough to justify the 1.88x in price?

A more fair comparison would be VB-4 and Luxery Liner Pro as LLP has a closed cell decoupler foam. VB-4 uses nitrile foam, LLP uses PVC. VB-4 has been on the market for years. I began selling Vertex Barrier Pad maybe a year ago and then LLP came out not long after. They are all very similar in application and function.

You need to contact a CAE dealer near you to get a quote. We set our own prices which may or may not be the same as CAE's retail pricing listed on their site.

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Friend picked up some VB4 @ the PE tent sale for like $20...

I was jealous, wish I would have seen it first...

nG