Two rolls of Raamat should be just fine. Those two infinity subs really won't be shaking things up too much.
ultimate157
5,000+ posts
Engineering Student
I've always thought deadening your vehicle with butyl or asphalt mat will help reduce the amount of sound that travels outside the vehicle, therefore wouldn't the opposite be true?
I've been trying to research sound deading, because I will be picking up an old Jeep Wrangler project soon, and they are notorious for being extremely loud on the inside. I was planning on covering the tub and hard top with 2 layers of Rammat, but I'm not so sure now, since it won't reduce road noise.
I've been trying to research sound deading, because I will be picking up an old Jeep Wrangler project soon, and they are notorious for being extremely loud on the inside. I was planning on covering the tub and hard top with 2 layers of Rammat, but I'm not so sure now, since it won't reduce road noise.
Products like Ensolite, Second Skin Overkill, etc. are marginal absorbers and very poor barriers by themselves. As Megalomaniac said, if you really want to block sound, you'll want a heavy, high density material like mass loaded vinyl or lead, floating on a layer of foam.
When it comes to absorbing sound, you need a material that 1/4 as thick as the wave is long. A 1/8" thick material like Ensolite will only absorb ~ 27 kHz and above. 1/4" gets you to ~ 13.5 kHz and above - helpful, but not spectacular.
Following RAAM's "Ensolite everywhere" advice does a few things. It adds a layer of protection for the RAAMmat underneath. It increases the thickness (and therefore absorbing capacity) of the carpet, headliner, etc. One of it's most important functions is gasketing trim panels so they won't vibrate.
If you want to use these products to block sound, you need to layer them - mat/foam/mat/foam - in the path of the noise. This creates a less effective barrier than 1 lb/ft² MLV or lead and foam, but it is still pretty good - very close to the
.5 lb/ft² stuff.
You don't really need to glue these foams down on the floor when they will be covered and held in place by carpet. I don't do it because it just makes it harder to get under it if you need to. You don't need a whole lot of adhesive to do the rest.
When it comes to absorbing sound, you need a material that 1/4 as thick as the wave is long. A 1/8" thick material like Ensolite will only absorb ~ 27 kHz and above. 1/4" gets you to ~ 13.5 kHz and above - helpful, but not spectacular.
Following RAAM's "Ensolite everywhere" advice does a few things. It adds a layer of protection for the RAAMmat underneath. It increases the thickness (and therefore absorbing capacity) of the carpet, headliner, etc. One of it's most important functions is gasketing trim panels so they won't vibrate.
If you want to use these products to block sound, you need to layer them - mat/foam/mat/foam - in the path of the noise. This creates a less effective barrier than 1 lb/ft² MLV or lead and foam, but it is still pretty good - very close to the
.5 lb/ft² stuff.
You don't really need to glue these foams down on the floor when they will be covered and held in place by carpet. I don't do it because it just makes it harder to get under it if you need to. You don't need a whole lot of adhesive to do the rest.
I recently did all four doors in my 01' Maxima. Even my wife noted the difference in road noise as well as an increased level of midbass from the doors. I would recommend it 100% particularly when being layered.
Did you do all four doors mat and foam, or did you do them all with mat and then come back later and do the foam? Curious to know if you are describing the difference between sound deadening and no sound deadening or the difference between deadened doors with and without foam.
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
It does neither.
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
Good rough guide. But the main 5 factors that make or break an effective absorber are...
- angle of incidence
- thickness
- flow resistance in the cells/matrix
- depth of cavity
- beginning frequency
Absorption performance goes down as you get closer and closer to the noise source. This is because the particle velocity is lower/slower. If you want to absorb sound, you have to convert it to heat. How well can a product that has poor porosity and no open cells do such a thing? Let alone RIGHT NEXT to the noise source??
Ensolite does make for a super awesome boat cushion, though! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
audioholic
5,000+ posts
not a moderator
Very informative post.
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
I was thinking you'd appreciated it.
How can something like Ensolite (trade marked PVC foam of which there are more varieties than potato chips) block noise if it weighs less than practically any other material in your entire car?? The trim plastic in your doors is probably on the magnitude of, what....10x heavier??
Ensolite to blocking noise is what psychoacoustics is to amplifier sonics. Science says "No," religion says "Oh, for sure." Nobody wants to learn that the 4 hours it took them to install some foam got them a 4.42% performance increase. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif
and which explanation do you think is going to help people decide which products to use in their project? CCF sheeting like Ensolite, Overkill and VB-5 are extremely useful, just not for what people may think (barrier/absorber) and certainly not just for boat cushions.
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
Ok, lets go though 5 effective applications for CCF in an automobile if science tells us that CCF is lousy at absorption and refraction.
1) Spring mass barrier/double wall barriers
2) Thermal apps
3) Mechanical isolation of two surfaces
4) Driver decoupling
5) Impact absorber for your trunk or heavy traffic areas.
Copy, paste and add to list....
FoxPro5
5,000+ posts
Causal wanderer
For the record, I used to sell an adhesive-backed CCF very similar to Ensolite/PVC foam. I had a few car audio guys wanting to buy it to lay over their wheel wells, floor alone....and I wouldn't sell it to them because it's simply a poor investment and the wrong tool for the job.
My personal opinion is that the reason why this stuff is so widely misused is because those that sell these type of products have bottom lines. To me, it's dishonesty and taking advantage of ignorant people. Again, just my observation. Bye.......
My personal opinion is that the reason why this stuff is so widely misused is because those that sell these type of products have bottom lines. To me, it's dishonesty and taking advantage of ignorant people. Again, just my observation. Bye.......
ultimate157
5,000+ posts
Engineering Student
Here's a question for you foxpro:
How would you go about reducing road noise from the tub and hard top in a Jeep wrangler? Cost is a factor; within reason for the average person.
Asking for my information, not to be a smart *** //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
How would you go about reducing road noise from the tub and hard top in a Jeep wrangler? Cost is a factor; within reason for the average person.
Asking for my information, not to be a smart *** //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
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