dome midrange or full size cone?

[anwaypasible 10+ year member]

i really want some bass up front.. i have had systems in the past with 2-way components up front and back, with the subwoofer picking up all that the components couldnt.

but this time around i really wanna try going with 3-way crossovers in the front and back (or at least the front)

my front doors can fit 6.5 inch speakers.. and i dont know how deep i can go, but i know the tang band 6.5 inch subwoofer isnt gonna fit the depth requirements.

so i was thinking about getting some 6.5 inch MDF rings and stacking them on top of eachother (or custom order some 2-3 inches thick)

that will give me enough clearance in the door so the back of the speaker doesnt hit the window as it goes up and down.

i'm not going to bother building a box for the doors.

i just wanna use the door as it is for a box.. and that means i cant run a regular midrange in the same air space as the woofer.

should i get a 5.25 inch sealed midrange and cut a hole in the door wherever there is enough room ... or should i get some small dome midranges that will fit virtually anywhere on the door.

i've read that dome midranges have excellent off-axis response.. but i am worried that they wont fill the interior with acoustic output.

my foot area is already sorta cramped.. therefore i dont wanna build some kick panels and reduce foot room even further.

this limits my selection of midranges tremendously.

i was gonna go with some audiophile midranges.. but that company doesnt make sealed back midranges.

i have to really choose whether i want audiophile sound quality from the speakers .. or do i want to try and positively fulfill the entire frequency spectrum without any serious gaps between octaves.

and i think i am gonna fill the frequency spectrum instead.. then calibrate the EQ with my calibrated microphone.

woofers:

Tang Band W6-1139SI 6-1/2" Subwoofer | Parts-Express.com

midranges:

Pyle Pro PDMR5 5-1/4" Sealed Back Midrange | Parts-Express.com

tweeters:

i dunno yet.. probably something vifa

the woofers have a frequency response of 38-800 Hz

the midranges have a frequency response of 450-7,000 Hz

crossover points 600 hz / 3700 hz (cerwin vega crossovers on ebay)

i'm thinking that if i crossover the midranges at 3700 hz .. there will be enough 'extra' in the voice coil to make the speakers sound better than stock .. but probably not as good as the audiophile midranges i was gonna get (peerless HDS/nomex series)

having the ability to go as high as 7,000 hz .. reserving the speaker should allow the voice coil to produce everything else with a little bit more detail since there is less strain on the speaker overall.

i dont know how well the midrange works .. i have never worked with them before.

i'm also hoping that the tang band woofer will do alright since i am cutting it off at 600hz instead of going all the way up to 800 hz

there are some subwoofers in my 3-way setup of my house.. they say that the woofer can go well up into the midrange (+1,000 hz) and i really enjoy the results.

so i am gonna try it again.

besides, the frequency response generally goes much lower than midrange speakers.

with the 13mm of xmax that those tang bands put out.. that should be plenty to get the bass output i want from them.

i plan on giving them a high pass crossover with the radio.. 50hz with a 6dB slope (i'll try 12dB slope to see which one is better)

does anybody know if a dome midrange will sound dull and lifeless .. giving much less than what a 5.25 inch woofer would ??

i really wanna fill my cabin with sound and i have some doubts that a dome midrange will fill the cabin.

i dont have an amp yet either.. but it will probably be 100 watts @ 4 ohms

i'm looking for something with low THD +noise

something like 0.09 or lower.

my house receiver has 0.09% in stereo mode and 0.7% in surround sound mode.

i can really tell the difference in the noise floor.. even with computer fans and a box fan going.

it sounds like there is a blanket laying on top of the entire output.. which is the lack of noise floor.

i'm only gonna spend like $150 - $200 on the amp.. so if i have to hunt down a used one i will.

my subwoofer is a jl audio 12w7 in a sealed box custom fabricated to meet required specs as suggested by the manufacturer.

the box also has an internal spider-brace to break up the standing soundwaves.

i need an amp for the subwoofer too.

and i'm only willing to spend as much as $250 on that amp .. and only if the specs are really really good.

i'll sit around and hunt down a used one if i have to.

my deck is a pioneer deh-7800mp with 5v pre-outs .. 16 band equalizer .. custom programmable time alignment .. built-in high pass and low-pass crossovers .. and burr brown DACs

i really want to know about the differences between dome midranges and cone midranges (how they sound inside the car).

Click to read more...

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

There are plenty of mids out there that will play quite low and still have low enough inductance to play midrange as well. One of the tricks to getting it to work right is to match them with a tweeter that can play pretty low as well. The tweet becomes the point-source driver instead of a having a dedicated midrange in a 3-way. Much simpler to install and much simpler to tune.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

I'd try out the Exodus Audio Anarchy midwoofer. You can cross it up to about 2.5-3k, depending on the slope. And it has a whopping 1" of clean p2p xmax, which is great for a 6.5" mid, or even an 8" mid.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

If you're dead set on going with a dedicated mid, IMO cone midranges are the only way to go since they can be crossed a good deal lower than most dome midranges, and thus you have the ability to get nearly the entire vocal spectrum coming from one speaker on each side.

 

[anwaypasible 10+ year member]

There are plenty of mids out there that will play quite low and still have low enough inductance to play midrange as well. One of the tricks to getting it to work right is to match them with a tweeter that can play pretty low as well. The tweet becomes the point-source driver instead of a having a dedicated midrange in a 3-way. Much simpler to install and much simpler to tune.

much simpler to distort.

i'm not looking to purchase a midrange that can do it all and still sound good.. its cheaper and the results are better when the speakers are divided up to play a dedicated part of the frequency spectrum.

this method of thinking works with all speakers.. even if you have a 15 inch subwoofer playing from 1hz - 30hz and a seperate 8 inch subwoofer playing 30hz - 60hz

 

[anwaypasible 10+ year member]

If you're dead set on going with a dedicated mid, IMO cone midranges are the only way to go since they can be crossed a good deal lower than most dome midranges, and thus you have the ability to get nearly the entire vocal spectrum coming from one speaker on each side.

thanks for the tough choice.. i'm gonna have fun with this one.

i dont plan on buying anything until april.. so i have some time to research further.

if it was a perfect world.. i would simply listen to both.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

much simpler to distort.
i'm not looking to purchase a midrange that can do it all and still sound good.. its cheaper and the results are better when the speakers are divided up to play a dedicated part of the frequency spectrum.

this method of thinking works with all speakers.. even if you have a 15 inch subwoofer playing from 1hz - 30hz and a seperate 8 inch subwoofer playing 30hz - 60hz

You are hopelessly misguided. A good mid will not have any trouble playing fairly low and still playing into the 2.5k range without cone breakup. The more drivers you add, the better chance you have of it sounding like crap thanks to the interaction between all the different drivers and the phasing issues created by all the crossover points.

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

much simpler to distort.
i'm not looking to purchase a midrange that can do it all and still sound good.. its cheaper and the results are better when the speakers are divided up to play a dedicated part of the frequency spectrum.

this method of thinking works with all speakers.. even if you have a 15 inch subwoofer playing from 1hz - 30hz and a seperate 8 inch subwoofer playing 30hz - 60hz

huh? I'm not following your line of thought. In a perfect world, one speaker ( point source ) would be the absolute best option. K.I.S.S //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

You are hopelessly misguided. A good mid will not have any trouble playing fairly low and still playing into the 2.5k range without cone breakup. The more drivers you add, the better chance you have of it sounding like crap thanks to the interaction between all the different drivers and the phasing issues created by all the crossover points.

exacry, tuning for a coherent sound stage would be a nightmare //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[Vossy 10+ year member]

LOL @ OP with like 22 posts going against Helo

 

[anwaypasible 10+ year member]

You are hopelessly misguided. A good mid will not have any trouble playing fairly low and still playing into the 2.5k range without cone breakup. The more drivers you add, the better chance you have of it sounding like crap thanks to the interaction between all the different drivers and the phasing issues created by all the crossover points.

you've said it yourself.. 'fair' because you can only expect so much from a midrange being used as a woofer.

i've had good luck with the cerwin vega crossovers off ebay, and i plan on going that route again.

once all of it is in place.. i will be using my calibrated SHURE microphone to adjust the equalizer.

and i'll probably purchase a seperate equalizer/line driver that goes between the radio and amplifier (one that has all the frequencies that my radio's 16 band EQ cant handle)

the whole attempt should set me in a class above everybody shopping at best buy.

also, i found a review on those exodus ex-anarchy drivers:

Exodus EX-Anarchy Midwoofer - DIYMA.com

that person was having the same troubles i am trying to avoid.. the SEAS drivers being pushed to work as a woofer were not satisfactory.

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

Hmmm

2 way? 3 way ? 4 way? 5 way? hmmmm //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

you've said it yourself.. 'fair' because you can only expect so much from a midrange being used as a woofer.

Actually I'm talking about letting a woofer play into the midrange.

the whole attempt should set me in a class above everybody shopping at best buy.

If that's your standard just quit posting right now. You're way out of your depth.

also, i found a review on those exodus ex-anarchy drivers:Exodus EX-Anarchy Midwoofer - DIYMA.com

that person was having the same troubles i am trying to avoid.. the SEAS drivers being pushed to work as a woofer were not satisfactory.

That would be because they are the wrong driver for what he was trying to do. Because those particular drivers can't do it doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of drivers that can't. Basing your whole argument off your clearly very limited experience nullifies your logic entirely.

 

[anwaypasible 10+ year member]

Actually I'm talking about letting a woofer play into the midrange.
If that's your standard just quit posting right now. You're way out of your depth.

That would be because they are the wrong driver for what he was trying to do. Because those particular drivers can't do it doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of drivers that can't. Basing your whole argument off your clearly very limited experience nullifies your logic entirely.

clearly limited because of your own assertations.

you dont know me .. you dont know half of me .. you have no right to tell me what my constitutional rights are .. and you tread the line of infringing my personal liberty, but you do it quite distasteful.

whatever equipment you have to have bloated your ego needs to be stolen so you can start all over again where the rest of us upcoming enthusiasts are.

i've had it with your rude and obnoxious remarks.

you havent posted anything constructive to the topic.. you have simply criticized and been a skeptic.

why not flash a badge or some sort of certification so we can work on getting that revoked.

 

[anwaypasible 10+ year member]

Hmmm

2 way? 3 way ? 4 way? 5 way? hmmmm //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

this is what i am looking at in my apartment: