Does Overpowering a sub.....

[modded]

My first post and kind of a newb question.

Will overpowering a sub lead to a noticeable db gain?

Basically, if I push an 18" SSA Zcon (rated at 2250w RMS) 2800w RMS, will it make a noticeable difference in loudness than if I push it 2200w RMS?

I am asking because I am trying to figure out which amp to go with.

Someone told me that when you push a sub substantially past its RMS there will be no db gains, just extra heat from the sub coils.

Thanks!

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[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Dunno if a Zcon will get too deep into compression at 2250W, but I would suspect the difference between 2250 and 2800W would be hard to notice without a meter.

 

[JoshC 10+ year member]

My first post and kind of a newb question.Will overpowering a sub lead to a noticeable db gain?

Basically, if I push an 18" SSA Zcon (rated at 2250w RMS) 2800w RMS, will it make a noticeable difference in loudness than if I push it 2200w RMS?

I am asking because I am trying to figure out which amp to go with.

Someone told me that when you push a sub substantially past its RMS there will be no db gains, just extra heat from the sub coils.

Thanks!

Maybe just on some songs that dont have large basslines. But ull have to turn it back down for rap/electronic music. Really anything with good bass, ide give it 23-2400wrms and let it beat. I seriously dont think ull hear an audible difference

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

a 15-20% increase in power will be insignificant..maybe 1-1.5 db increase?...not all ears are the same, but to the trained ear, it MIGHT be barely perceived, but probably not due to the amount of sheer power and air moving around in the confines of a car...+3 db is noticeable, +6 db is perceived as sounding twice as loud. As long as you keep it away from constant clipping and the box is spot-on, you should not have a problem running that sub on a 2.5-3k amp with program material (music)...just remember why there is a subsonic filter available(if you have one)...and use it accordingly.

 

[LBC]

a 15-20% increase in power will be insignificant..maybe 1-1.5 db increase?...not all ears are the same, but to the trained ear, it MIGHT be barely perceived, but probably not due to the amount of sheer power and air moving around in the confines of a car...+3 db is noticeable, +6 db is perceived as sounding twice as loud. As long as you keep it away from constant clipping and the box is spot-on, you should not have a problem running that sub on a 2.5-3k amp with program material (music)...just remember why there is a subsonic filter available(if you have one)...and use it accordingly.

That small of a percentage could not yield that much more output. It takes a person doubling their power output or doubling their cone area to achieve +3db AT MOST. Usually they experience less than that.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

Usually overpowering a woofer leads to minimal gains.

Once the limits of a woofer are reached, adding more power isn't going to do much besides hurt the woofer. This really really depends on the style of woofer though (on how much extra you can add).

If you go from 2200w to 2800w, you may hear a slight difference, but it won't be a crazy difference.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

what is the peak rated power for the ZCON 18?...2.25k?,4k?, 8.5k?

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

what is the peak rated power for the ZCON 18?...2.25k?,4k?, 8.5k?

Peak power is worthless. Pretty sure SSA doesn't even assign them a rating.

OP the theoretical gain from 2250w to 2800w is ~1dB. You won't notice a difference in volume...you start noticing differences in volume when you're talking about 3dB+

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

My first post and kind of a newb question.Will overpowering a sub lead to a noticeable db gain?

Basically, if I push an 18" SSA Zcon (rated at 2250w RMS) 2800w RMS, will it make a noticeable difference in loudness than if I push it 2200w RMS?

I am asking because I am trying to figure out which amp to go with.

Someone told me that when you push a sub substantially past its RMS there will be no db gains, just extra heat from the sub coils.

Thanks!

No.

No.

What amps are you looking at?

Depends on the box, amp, and source material you choose. Are you gonna be playing sine waves or music?

....the key word is "substantially"...2200 to 2800 watts on a sub rated at 2250w rms is not "substantial"...2250w to 5500w is substantial.

The difference between a 25-30hz low B string and a 50-60hz kick drum is "substantial"...and requires "substantial" headroom for clean transient peaks from the amp you choose. If you intend to compete and are trying to to squeeze every db possible for short durations using frequency specific sine waves, you probably would not be asking these questions....therefore I assume you are intending to be heard beating down the street....something else to think about..are you looking to "go low"?..getting into the lower octaves can be done more effectively by using the coupling effect of multiple subs vs. relying on a single sub....but, I was always the "aw, it's just one 12" kinda guy..lol...The key is not to clip your signal.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

Peak power is worthless. Pretty sure SSA doesn't even assign them a rating.
OP the theoretical gain from 2250w to 2800w is ~1dB. You won't notice a difference in volume...you start noticing differences in volume when you're talking about 3dB+

Peak is about as worthless as RMS, i suppose...I am sure you are correct about SSA and their ratings...since they only use 3" coils

 

[Kangaroux 5,000+ posts]

Peak is about as worthless as RMS, i suppose...I am sure you are correct about SSA and their ratings...since they only use 3" coils

I can sorta agree with you on the RMS being worthless because of box rise changing everything, but RMS is at least an accurate representation. Peak power is just to make 16 year old's pants' wet.

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

I can sorta agree with you on the RMS being worthless because of box rise changing everything, but RMS is at least an accurate representation. Peak power is just to make 16 year old's pants' wet.

this is probably true..lol.. in Pro Sound advertising , you usually see continuous (rms), program (music) and peak power handling..it is common practice to match amplification to the program power ratings....for instance, I have some of the cheapest looking 18's you ever did see in my DJ setup..flimsy paper with almost transparent looking cloth surrounds...but under neath is this huge motor and spider assy with 4" coils rated at 500w continuous, 1000w program and 2000w peak. I push them with 1000 watts ea. for hours on end, sometimes outdoors in direct sunlight and they freakin pound..everything from Alan Jackson to Skrillex. I know there is absolutely no comparison between car audio and pro-sound....or is there?

 

[modded]

Haha the comment about a 16 year old kid was too funny!

Ok you guys convinced me. I settled with a smaller amp.

I amp looking for a mixture of being heard down the block and SQ. No competition for me. I am also looking for killer lows with decent output so I want to tune the box to 30hz. Is that a good decision?

I decided to run an 18" Xcon with a Rockford T1500 bdCP amp wired down to 1 ohm.

My next questions is:

Which is better for a daily non-competition SQL setup in a Chevy Tahoe (SUV).

Sub up, port back?

Or sub and port back?

After searching I was seeing to many mixed answers.

 

[bhsdriller 10+ year member]

sub up, port back

 

[quackhead 10+ year member]

that should be loud enough to be heard down the block..lol..if u have to spend $400 on a 18" sub, that looks like a good one to start with...and the RF 1500 should do a bit more than rated, if it is like the rest i have seen...double check on the port placement though. I'm not going to recommend anything there, not knowing port(s) dimensions and distance from port to rear wall/door....personally, I run the port on the same plane as the sub cone. I would not want to recommend you do something that would cause a phase issue which could result in your system sounding better outside than inside.