Does more power make a speaker perform better?

[Fi-brations 10+ year member]

Say that i swapped my set of components(see sig) that are 50-75 watt rms running on a 50 watt rms x 4 amp with a set of HAT imagine or clarus components that are around 100 watts rms. Would they perform to the best of their ability, but just not as loud as they could be? this is just something i was curious about, i wouldnt be doin anything like this for a long time, but curious if this would make sense. What do u guys think? Would i notice a large difference in sq and/or midbass? ive never heard any real systems, and nothing that sounds better than my speakers, so i dont even know what better sq would be like, mine sound pretty good to me, but car audio is my hobby so i want to keep moving forward

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[fish1234 10+ year member]

Say that i swapped my set of components(see sig) that are 50-75 watt rms running on a 50 watt rms x 4 amp with a set of HAT imagine or clarus components that are around 100 watts rms. Would they perform to the best of their ability, but just not as loud as they could be? this is just something i was curious about, i wouldnt be doin anything like this for a long time, but curious if this would make sense. What do u guys think? Would i notice a large difference in sq and/or midbass? ive never heard any real systems, and nothing that sounds better than my speakers, so i dont even know what better sq would be like, mine sound pretty good to me, but car audio is my hobby so i want to keep moving forward

More importantly, you need to make sure your doors are sealed up good to provide the enclosure for the midbass and or midrange. Then you can give you new comps some more power. Those new HAT's are pretty awesome, they would do good with the extra wattage.

 

[06goat 10+ year member]

Yeah if you want to get the best sound possible, Deaden and seal everything

 

[fish1234 10+ year member]

Are you using them passively or are you gonna run them active?

 

[Fi-brations 10+ year member]

sorry to confuse u guys, i said that "if i was to do this" i ask this question just for my own general knowledge of why and how speakers have better sq

 

[BnGRacing 10+ year member]

sorry to confuse u guys, i said that "if i was to do this" i ask this question just for my own general knowledge of why and how speakers have better sq

Don't be surprised when 'internet car audio experts' disregard what you're asking and make a sales pitch for high margin accessories. You see it in many speaker threads and you saw it in your "Big 3" thread.

The truth of the matter is RMS ratings on speakers are worthless. Why is that? Well, how do the manufacturers come up with that number? Is it per speaker or pair? Are they testing using pink noise or music? How long is the test? Is the RMS a thermal rating or mechanical rating? Truth is, no one really knows as the speaker manufacturers all use differing methods ranging from torture testing their products to drawing marketing friendly numbers out of a hat. Since everyone rates their stuff differently any comparisons between 1 manufacturer's RMS number & another will be useless.

To complicate matters even more, many people think a 100w speaker will sound better or be louder than a 50w speaker. That couldn't be further from the truth. To 'get loud' requires you to move more air. That means using speakers that have a higher excursion, a higher efficiency, or installing more speakers. Most component sets will reach their mechanical limitations with

Unfortunately, there is no specification out there that will tell you how good a speaker will sound to your ears regardless of what marketing departments and vendors on internet forums tell you. The best way to figure out how to start to sound better is to use your own ears. Visit a high-end home audio store and get a nice demo of a well set up home threatre system; that way you have some reference to what music is supposed to sound like. From there, it's a lot of trial & error as well as going to shops & competitions to hear new equipment.

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

Don't be surprised when 'internet car audio experts' disregard what you're asking and make a sales pitch for high margin accessories. You see it in many speaker threads and you saw it in your "Big 3" thread.
The truth of the matter is RMS ratings on speakers are worthless. Why is that? Well, how do the manufacturers come up with that number? Is it per speaker or pair? Are they testing using pink noise or music? How long is the test? Is the RMS a thermal rating or mechanical rating? Truth is, no one really knows as the speaker manufacturers all use differing methods ranging from torture testing their products to drawing marketing friendly numbers out of a hat. Since everyone rates their stuff differently any comparisons between 1 manufacturer's RMS number & another will be useless.

To complicate matters even more, many people think a 100w speaker will sound better or be louder than a 50w speaker. That couldn't be further from the truth. To 'get loud' requires you to move more air. That means using speakers that have a higher excursion, a higher efficiency, or installing more speakers. Most component sets will reach their mechanical limitations with

Unfortunately, there is no specification out there that will tell you how good a speaker will sound to your ears regardless of what marketing departments and vendors on internet forums tell you. The best way to figure out how to start to sound better is to use your own ears. Visit a high-end home audio store and get a nice demo of a well set up home threatre system; that way you have some reference to what music is supposed to sound like. From there, it's a lot of trial & error as well as going to shops & competitions to hear new equipment.

yeah this

 

[93cr250 10+ year member]

but when your speakers are distorting at high volume on bass notes you do need more power correct? that is if everything else is set up correctly

 

[disturbed471985 5,000+ posts]

^^ Nothing like some clipping to wake the speakers up in the morning LOL. All I will say is it is better to overpower your speakers with a clean signal then it is to clip them to death with dirty lower power.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

#1: the speaker installation will have a huge effect on how they will perform. the airspace, mounting baffle, aiming direction, and vehicle resonances are what you can control/affect. midbass requires air tight seals - gotta close up them doors and seal those giant holes.

SQ is relative but for a general idea of what you want to listen for - down load the SQ rules and judging criteria for IASCA, USACi, and MECA. the downloads are free from the respective websites, and also read the install rules.

speaker materials, T/S parameters, and general construction methods will have an effect on performance. for example - underhung drivers will maintain better voice coil control at higher excursions since the entire coil is always within the magnetic gap. these drivers are more costly to manufacture - Hertz Mille ML165 is an example of a well done underhung driver.

can the HAT Imagine sound better than the Pioneer TS series? sure - if properly implemented.

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Great posts above! ^^

Not to nitpick, but the question was if the 100W speakers will sound as good compared to the 50W speakers on a 50W source (amp power). //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Without actually performing the test, there is no way to actually know for sure without installing them.

Generally speaking, NO it won't sound as good because the speaker will be running at half of its power when the amp is near its peak RMS. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Some speakers don't "come alive" until you reach a certain power point. A speaker or especially a subwoofer with a higher RMS rating has a stiffer suspension and/or heavier coil to handle the added power. This is going to take a few watts just to get it moving.

At lower volumes/power, a more sensitive speaker with a lower RMS rating will "generally" sound a Lot better than a higher rated speaker.

Just take a look at some of the "50 watt" home theater speakers selling for $500++ and compare them to the "200 watt RMS" speakers we have in car audio for Some speakers with higher RMS ratings will sound "attenuated" and muffled until you get them cranked up. This is why some audio snobs want speakers in the 50RMS range, for actual listening without needing to blow your head off to sound good.

One of the best points in this thread was going out to your local home theater/car audio retailer and listening to various speakers. It will give you a better idea of what a specific speaker will sound like and also point out the blatant exaggeration some brands have of their specs! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[duanebro 10+ year member]

I will try to answer the op. If every thing else is the same. (It never is and that is why you got all the answers above.) It will not help until you start to clip the amp. And it depends on the install IF the 100 watt system can handle the added power. Normally speakers are rated for thermal power handling, not what they need to perform their best. This is true for all types/sizes of speakers.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

BnGRacing answered the question about power, i didn't feel it needed further clarification.

but ya'll did... so here is my $.02 on the subject. the difference between 50W and 100W is, at most, 3dB of output. there aren't many speakers that could actually handle that much power anyway. Humans can barely determine a difference in loudness by 2dB and humans perceive something as "twice as loud" when it increases by 10dB.

The "come alive" point VW mentions above is probably around 3-5W. most people, regardless of what equipment they have, rarely give their speakers more than 10W. around 10W of output power, you are around 100dBA of output (assuming typical sensitivities) - which is loud for anyone and not a suitable level to hold a conversation. I can push my system to around 110dBA but it is not comfortable (though not distorted).

regarding a 50W rated amplifier vs a 100W rated amplifier and if the increase in power will make the speaker sound better? depends on the operating level and the amplifier topologies. at 50W output, the 100W amplifier may have much lower distortion and plenty of head room. the 50W amplifier will begin to produce audible distortion and headroom will be reduced - clipping is approached. however, since you'll never actually give 50W to your speakers, it doesn't really matter. the general rule is to have more power than you'll need. most amplifiers on the market can do that - though some do it better than others. as mentioned, there are too many variables with manufacturer ratings of amplifiers and speakers to make any specific predictions or comparisons.

in the past 20 years i have experimented with many speakers and amplifiers, and i continue to experiment (my Accord is a rolling laboratory). To know what you will like, you need to try things for yourself.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

I have modeled the Hybrid Audio Imagine woofer with WinISD. The goal was to see how match wattage it can take (with a 70Hz crossover) before the woofer excursion exceeds the speaker's one xmax of 6mm (by the way.. that's quite an impressive xmax for a small speaker). Normally speakers have excursion limit above xmax, but xmax is supposedly the range where SQ is very good, distortion is low, etc. The result is that 80watts of power is enough. However, since amplifiers are rated at voltage normally not seen in a car, I would say amplifier rated for 100 to 120watts RMS would be prefect for powering the HAT Imagine woofers. Someone posted that Imagine woofers can take even more wattage without doing anything funny. Note than this sort of wattage could be used only if you bi-amp or run them active, because tweeters probably will not handle so much power. Probably they do not need to either.

 

[zako 10+ year member]

but when your speakers are distorting at high volume on bass notes you do need more power correct? that is if everything else is set up correctly

The distortion could also come from the speaker reaching its mechanical excursion limits at low frequencies. A lot of speaker will not reproduce low frequencies with high fidelity at higher volumes. I have heard "100 watt" speakers sound like poo when drums hit hard unless the high pass frequency is moved to at least 100Hz, with a 60watt amplifier..