Does it make more sense to upgrade my HU or amp?

[TTBlues]

I also didnt realize your speakers were not upgraded which obviously is a factor. are they bare bones factory? getting speakers with a higher sensitivity, and a proper install may be the way to go because small increases in power dont make the largest difference although going from headnuit power to ~100 watts a side sure does

They are the bare bone stock speakers. It's a 2003 Tacoma. They are component fronts. I do mean to upgrade them at some point. But honestly, I've driven in a lot of cars with stock setups, and the 00-04 Tacoma blows them all away. That doesn't mean it sounds good. But you can quasi-enjoy some music in these trucks by just upgrading the HU.
Obviously, that's not enough for me or I wouldn't be working on my setup. I am saving up for some HQ components. I'm sure these speakers are maxed out.

But when setting the gain on the amp with the DMM, the speakers are taken out of the equation. And I still had to have the amp close to maxed out to get the right voltage.

 

[TTBlues]

Kicker people don't.

Haha. You can buy kicker junk at walmart.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for all that. It makes sense. But my Kenwood KDC-355U has 24 bit D/A converters.
Kenwood KDC-355U CD receiver at Crutchfield.com

You listed the KDC-x998 as a viable upgrade, but when I looked it up to compare with what I have, it seemed like the 998 just has more features and of course the 4V outputs . More tone sculpting controls, which I want anyhow. Here's that link:

Kenwood Excelon KDC-X998 CD receiver at Crutchfield.com

I'm not sure what specs I should be comparing. To my understanding they share they same processor, but I may be wrong.

I'll look up the pioneer.

They say its 24 bit but its poor quality, the higher end units have burr brown ones. Along with built in digitalsound processors Specs dont mean much these companies put out whaever number they want to sell a product. You get what you pay for.

 

[zrowgz]

Most midrange priced HU are going to have sound quality that is just fine. Upgrading your speakers will make everything sound so much better that you might not need that extra volume. But, if you need just a tad more, as I do, check out "inline" booster packs for the door speakers. I use the Alpine KTP-445U. It boosts the power coming from your HU amp and makes it so you don't have to crank the volume and get extra distortion.

If its more bass that you require, as I also do, get a ****** amp. I figure that I'll want wayyyy more power once in a while, when I'm in the mood, so I get something too big and then just turn down the gain, keeping distortion low. I use a Rockford Fosgate Power T1500-1bdCP to power two Alpine 12" Type-R's, but I usually keep the subwoofer gain control on my HU as low as it goes, after tuning the amp at normal settings.

Over powering will cost more, but you'll get high quality music, and those vast reserves to tap into when you feel like it!

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif happy listening!

 

[phemps 10+ year member]

They are the bare bone stock speakers. It's a 2003 Tacoma. They are component fronts. I do mean to upgrade them at some point. But honestly, I've driven in a lot of cars with stock setups, and the 00-04 Tacoma blows them all away. That doesn't mean it sounds good. But you can quasi-enjoy some music in these trucks by just upgrading the HU.
Obviously, that's not enough for me or I wouldn't be working on my setup. I am saving up for some HQ components. I'm sure these speakers are maxed out.

But when setting the gain on the amp with the DMM, the speakers are taken out of the equation. And I still had to have the amp close to maxed out to get the right voltage.

In all reality setting gains with a multimeter isn't that great. As far as having to turn the gain up all the way that's just because of the output of the headunit being not incredibly high. This is not a terrible thing though. There may be some setting that's attenuating your signal and causing you to need to crank your gain to get that voltage you are looking for, however.

 

[TTBlues]

In all reality setting gains with a multimeter isn't that great. As far as having to turn the gain up all the way that's just because of the output of the headunit being not incredibly high. This is not a terrible thing though. There may be some setting that's attenuating your signal and causing you to need to crank your gain to get that voltage you are looking for, however.

Well, I didn't just try with a DMM. I also used test tones, and just my good ole ears and a mix I know well. The DMM method is not very good. I had to crank the gains very close to max to achieve the desired voltage. Then I put in a 1K test tone and had pull them back quite a bit to remove the distortion. Still they are up a little higher than would seem normal. They are both set between 2 and 3 O'clock.

I searched through all the settings on the HU for something that might be limiting the pre outs and cannot find anything. It's possible that the front pre outs on the HU are bad. Maybe I'll pull it and try sending the rear outs to the amp.

But either way, I'm going to upgrade both the HU and the door speakers. I ordered the Kenwood x998 and will order some Image Dynamics in a day or so. I just want to try out the new HU first and see how the set up responds to it, and then add the speakers to that.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

nice choice, you'll see a big difference.

 

[TTBlues]

nice choice, you'll see a big difference.

I really considered the Pioneer 80PRS. You're not the only one to describe it as being as good as it gets in this price range and it is the only one that advertises burr brown converters. But after you add in the cost of the mic and wiring harness, the Kenwood came in at around $70 cheaper which will go towards my speakers. And I've always been happy with Kenwood HU's. I'm sure this one will be a step up from what I have.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

both are great head units, I myself like the sound signature of kenwood head units too. Very warm sound. Pioneers are bright

 

[I'mPoor:(]

That KDC-x998 is top of the line, good choice!

 

[TTBlues]

Cool. I'm stoked. When I started this build I figured if I saw a drastic improvement over stock, I'd probably want to upgrade. I'm to much of an audiophile. But I wanted to keep things cheap until I saw the potential of a built system and could justify the expenses. Everything was justified once I heard the bass and more clear mids, but I also immediately saw the limitation of cheap gear. My current sub is a 10" Pioneer shallow mount sub/enclosure. I got it dirt cheap. It can get plenty loud and hit hard enough for my enjoyment, but it can also get muddy at times. Once everything else is dialed in, I'll replace that with a more musical sub.

 

[TTBlues]

I also wanted to ask you guys:

The components I am considering are the ID Ctx65cs. They have an RMS rating of 100 watts, where as my amp does 50 watts RMS. As long as I don't push the amp beyond clipping, does it seem like it will be able to drive them? 50 watts should be plenty volume for me, but I don't want to underpower them and have them not respond in a musical way.

In the future, I will upgrade the amp or just get a mono block for the sub. Then I can bridge my current amp and get 150 watts to each side door speaker.

But until that time, will these ID's sound good in my setup?

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

You have to turn the gain up on the amp to get close to max clean power because at volume 22 the head unit is putting out very little voltage. This is normal. Don't listen to tones when setting gains on speaker channels. You never, ever have pure tones playing in your music at 1 kHz, and our hearing is very sensitive to 1 kHz. Of course it's going to sound awful.

 

[TTBlues]

You have to turn the gain up on the amp to get close to max clean power because at volume 22 the head unit is putting out very little voltage. This is normal. Don't listen to tones when setting gains on speaker channels. You never, ever have pure tones playing in your music at 1 kHz, and our hearing is very sensitive to 1 kHz. Of course it's going to sound awful.

Thanks. Yeah, I hooked up the speakers in series and used earplugs while playing the 1k tone. It was still painful. I was raising the gain until I started to hear clipping and the signal breaking up. I still ended up making smaller adjustments to things after that just using a mix that I know well. The 1k tone and the mix method got me in the ballpark max of the amp. But even where I have it set now, on some songs I can hear some distortion. At this point, it could be the HU, could be the amp, but is probably the speakers.

So, I'm just beginning the upgrades.

 

[TTBlues]

I also wanted to ask you guys:
The components I am considering are the ID Ctx65cs. They have an RMS rating of 100 watts, where as my amp does 50 watts RMS. As long as I don't push the amp beyond clipping, does it seem like it will be able to drive them? 50 watts should be plenty volume for me, but I don't want to underpower them and have them not respond in a musical way.

In the future, I will upgrade the amp or just get a mono block for the sub. Then I can bridge my current amp and get 150 watts to each side door speaker.

But until that time, will these ID's sound good in my setup?

???