Digital Processing Unit

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

3SIXTY.3 - Rockford Fosgate Interactive Signal Processor

id imagine this unit is decent.. its alot cheaper than the JBL..

 

[porkcereal]

The mini cdsp is getting great reviews for being a high power budget dsp. It's looking like the best thing new for under 400$ right now.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i've done a few builds with the MiniDSP. 2 inputs and 4 outputs, highly configurable. limitation is 2V input so you can't use full HU volume on some decks without a -3dB FMOD.

the RF 3sixty.3 is a solid piece as well. laptop configurable.

autotune isn't very useful. it's never good enough to leave alone and it usually does things that are the result of a fixed mic position and not what you actually hear.

your best bet is just having a flexible EQ and TCR so you can address the things that matter. a parametric EQ is more useful than graphic for fixing problems.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

i've done a few builds with the MiniDSP. 2 inputs and 4 outputs, highly configurable. limitation is 2V input so you can't use full HU volume on some decks without a -3dB FMOD.
the RF 3sixty.3 is a solid piece as well. laptop configurable.

autotune isn't very useful. it's never good enough to leave alone and it usually does things that are the result of a fixed mic position and not what you actually hear.

your best bet is just having a flexible EQ and TCR so you can address the things that matter. a parametric EQ is more useful than graphic for fixing problems.

What the MS-8 uses and does is nothing like the Alpine and Pioneer. And yes you can set it and forget it.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

What the MS-8 uses and does is nothing like the Alpine and Pioneer. And yes you can set it and forget it.

i've used the MS-8 in other builds and it's not a perfect tune. the headset helps, as does rotating the head during measurement, to help with left and right separation and averaging over the area. inability to adjust crossovers without a re-tune is silly and a poor design. certainly, the soundstage with the MS-8 tune can be good and i've had good results, but the lack of user flexibility is why people upgrade away from it. we didn't like the sub tune with the MS-8 and removed the sub from the MS-8 output. we got a good soundstage with the factory locations. upgrading from the MS-8 is planned. only two presets is highly limited compared to others.

the controller is odd in that it requires the remote, and the remote is clunky and not very responsive. a lack of PC interface makes the MS-8 the most cumbersome unit to control of all options and my 1996 Alpine ERA-G320 was easier to operate.

i recommend the MS-8 for novices that wouldn't know how to tune anyway, and don't want to fuss with a unit after initial install. i recommend it as a factory interface to replace a factory amp and get the most out of a factory system (and as a first step to a basic upgrade).

i don't recommend the MS-8 for anyone looking to tweak and improve beyond an initial tune or for anyone looking to perfect the system.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

i've used the MS-8 in other builds and it's not a perfect tune. the headset helps, as does rotating the head during measurement, to help with left and right separation and averaging over the area. inability to adjust crossovers without a re-tune is silly and a poor design. certainly, the soundstage with the MS-8 tune can be good and i've had good results, but the lack of user flexibility is why people upgrade away from it. we didn't like the sub tune with the MS-8 and removed the sub from the MS-8 output. we got a good soundstage with the factory locations. upgrading from the MS-8 is planned. only two presets is highly limited compared to others.
the controller is odd in that it requires the remote, and the remote is clunky and not very responsive. a lack of PC interface makes the MS-8 the most cumbersome unit to control of all options and my 1996 Alpine ERA-G320 was easier to operate.

i recommend the MS-8 for novices that wouldn't know how to tune anyway, and don't want to fuss with a unit after initial install. i recommend it as a factory interface to replace a factory amp and get the most out of a factory system (and as a first step to a basic upgrade).

i don't recommend the MS-8 for anyone looking to tweak and improve beyond an initial tune or for anyone looking to perfect the system.

Exact reason why i strayed away from the MS-8

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

it's a good unit for those wanting to get close, but don't care to try any further. don't expect to fix problems beyond a very basic EQ adjustment.

it can be a perfect unit for some.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

The MS-8 built one of the best stages I have ever heard and I've heard some of the best. It's right up there. If you couldn't get the sub right than you where not using it right.

And there is a reason you have to cal for crossover changes. Crossover changes change the tune.

I couldn't nor could good tuners get my old bit one this good.

Personally I would rather enjoy music more than tweak something everyday and get nowhere.

It is love hate. I hated it at first now I'm in love.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

If you couldn't get the sub right than you where not using it right.

...because it's so difficult to wear the headset correctly?

the problem is that the tune is optimized for one sub level only. for people that like to adjust the volume of their sub depending on music types or preference, different sub volumes can yield different tunes. the issues go away once the MS-8 is no longer controlling the sub. this vehicle was a tC and the owner likes adjusting the level often.

And there is a reason you have to cal for crossover changes. Crossover changes change the tune.

because phase will change with slope, correct. but changing the point to what you prefer should be a user-adjustment in real-time just like other processors. i believe that crossovers points should be set by ear, not by computer. and to set by ear you need to listen and adjust AFTER time correction.

like i said, i still recommend the MS-8 to people depending on their specific needs. the OP asked to tweak after the auto-tune which eliminates the MS-8 from the running unless you want to fumble through the EQ adjustments with the remote with no idea what the MS-8 actually did.

the problem with a manual tune is that you need to pay careful attention to crossover slopes as they cause partial phase shifts (forward or backward, in 90 deg increments). many "tuners" totally neglect this and use a ruler only. an auto TCR function will account for this for you. most of the issues with a sound stage are phase and the remainder are in L vs R frequency response (IID, ITD, HRTF).

The H800 will do auto TCR and let you manually adjust everything else. Separately, it will do Imprint and account for all cabin acoustics (impulse response), phase, etc. but still let you adjust crossover points in real-time after the tune. it also shows you the results. yes, you'll need to re-run if you change slopes. It also offers 6 presets; allowing for tunes for competition, daily, and seating positions. I have an IASCA tune (clinical) for driver, daily tune (fun) for driver, daily for passenger, daily for both front seats. i have two spare for experimentation which allow for easy comparison. I also prefer having a fiber optic input and the difference between analog and digital is huge.

 

[roudabout6]

To help out a bit more I have 2 front drivers running off my front channel to an amp, then 2 tweeters and 2 rear drivers from off the rear channel to an amp, finally 2 12in subs running off the subwoofer channel to an amp. I am looking for a dsp around the 500 to 600 dollar range that an first auto tune my system then allow the user to configure with the auto tune afterwards. Allowing my to add/remove my subwoofer volume. Also if it could make it so I am not splitting the rear channel to drive the rears and tweets but make it so each set of drivers front, rear, and tweets are on there own channel that would be great too. I am trying to allow for spl with my subs but also be able to make my system for sq friendly.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

...because it's so difficult to wear the headset correctly?
the problem is that the tune is optimized for one sub level only. for people that like to adjust the volume of their sub depending on music types or preference, different sub volumes can yield different tunes. the issues go away once the MS-8 is no longer controlling the sub. this vehicle was a tC and the owner likes adjusting the level often.

because phase will change with slope, correct. but changing the point to what you prefer should be a user-adjustment in real-time just like other processors. i believe that crossovers points should be set by ear, not by computer. and to set by ear you need to listen and adjust AFTER time correction.

like i said, i still recommend the MS-8 to people depending on their specific needs. the OP asked to tweak after the auto-tune which eliminates the MS-8 from the running unless you want to fumble through the EQ adjustments with the remote with no idea what the MS-8 actually did.

the problem with a manual tune is that you need to pay careful attention to crossover slopes as they cause partial phase shifts (forward or backward, in 90 deg increments). many "tuners" totally neglect this and use a ruler only. an auto TCR function will account for this for you. most of the issues with a sound stage are phase and the remainder are in L vs R frequency response (IID, ITD, HRTF).

The H800 will do auto TCR and let you manually adjust everything else. Separately, it will do Imprint and account for all cabin acoustics (impulse response), phase, etc. but still let you adjust crossover points in real-time after the tune. it also shows you the results. yes, you'll need to re-run if you change slopes. It also offers 6 presets; allowing for tunes for competition, daily, and seating positions. I have an IASCA tune (clinical) for driver, daily tune (fun) for driver, daily for passenger, daily for both front seats. i have two spare for experimentation which allow for easy comparison. I also prefer having a fiber optic input and the difference between analog and digital is huge.

It has a shelf sub level adjustment.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

It has a shelf sub level adjustment.

right, but is a PITA to do anything with. the remote ***** to have to keep using and the response to the remote is slow. he has a knob that is easily accessed and will continue to use the knob.

i think most of my complaints about the MS-8 could be eliminated if the controller was nicer and access to settings was easier. i'm spoiled by having Alpine processor controllers; ERA-G320, PXA-H701/C701, and PXA-H800/C800, for the past 18 years. i install and tune many other types but i use what i like and what i like is ease of control. It's also why i stick with Alpine head units because navigating them (most of them) is a breeze. i.e. sub level control is one press away and not buried in a menu. I started running/installing DSP in 1998. We're similar in age so i'm sure you know what i'm talking about and you've also seen the evolution of DSP.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

right, but is a PITA to do anything with. the remote ***** to have to keep using and the response to the remote is slow. he has a knob that is easily accessed and will continue to use the knob.
i think most of my complaints about the MS-8 could be eliminated if the controller was nicer and access to settings was easier. i'm spoiled by having Alpine processor controllers; ERA-G320, PXA-H701/C701, and PXA-H800/C800, for the past 18 years. i install and tune many other types but i use what i like and what i like is ease of control. It's also why i stick with Alpine head units because navigating them (most of them) is a breeze. i.e. sub level control is one press away and not buried in a menu. I started running/installing DSP in 1998. We're similar in age so i'm sure you know what i'm talking about and you've also seen the evolution of DSP.

I can see the remote difference being annoying. I like it only because I like wireless remotes. It keeps me away from reaching for the HUs volume knob. You can set the display up to stay on the audio function menu.

They have deffinetly came a long way from having a basic EQ and phase.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

i'm also spoiled with having an Alpine HU and Alpine processor which allows my HU remote to access processor functions and presets. i.e. with two remote button presses i can access my DSP presets through my HU remote.

the HU and processor combination means my HU volume controls the volume at the processor which maximizes the S/N ratio for the pair and allows digital DSP inputs with HU volume control.

i like remotes, but not managing more than one in a car. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif