Current events discussion

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Not tied at the hip...China is propping them up...but you're good with just funding them through trade...

At the same time Russia also fears China, which they should. Keep in mind they had a border conflict until ~20 years ago.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

So try nothing and keep funding a hostile nation through trade...

Good question. We're not unwinding our China problem for years. ~30+ years of unfair trade practices will never be undone, but the sooner we move to correct our trade imbalance the better. There is a reason BidenCo didn't reverse Trump's tariffs. Much like Trump continued Obama's harsh immigration/border policies, both parties know spending, immigration and trade policies are all fawked. The difference is that the left goes silent when it's Obama with kids in cages or following Trump trade/tariff policies, but when it's Trump the left loses their ever loving minds. Schrodinger's leftist.

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

Not tied at the hip...China is propping them up...but you're good with just funding them through trade...

China and Russia are each others biggest allies. Yes republicans want us to believe that China is an existential threat....and Russia is our new friend.

If China were attacking sovereign nations right now....I'd expect the US to step up and do something about it. Not attempt to help them.

Obamacare also forced millions of people who were foregoing healthcare insurance to buy it vs paying additional taxes, which of course bumped up insurance premiums. I'm not saying Trump's solution is any better since the system is (IMHO) irreparably broken or maybe a better description would be perma-phucked. Our healthcare system is like an old junker car that you replace the water pump, then the alternator, then the starter, then the radiator.... and eventually you figure out it just isn't worth fixing anymore.

I don't support all of Trump's cuts. Ie, I don't want to see CFPB go; I think cutting Fannie/Freddie loose is very risky. I accept that Trump's political agenda doesn't match mine point for point, nor do I expect it to. Our spending is ridiculous and we don't even know where the money goes - why tf is the gov't paying millions for Politico? Our gov't is literally pushing some weird DIE/*****/*****/CRT/Woke agenda through it's bureaucracies. How would you feel if USAID had been hijacked to push pro-2nd amendment, pro-life, etc agenda? The spending problem has been an issue forever, with Carter, Bush v2 and Obama all talking about doing something about it, Clinton doing a little about it and Trump appears to be poised to more than previous administration. And in all fairness, I put the blame for the explosive increase in deficit spending at Reagan's doorstep. And Trump and Biden can share the blame for the recent insano increase in deficit spending.

China and Russia might be tied at the hip, but they are in a love/hate relationship and are simultaneously each other's greatest ally and greatest enemy. Ukraine doesn't have a choice but to cough up a chunk of land, that's the price of peace in this case. I sure as fawk am not willing to commit troops nor do I want our allies to commit troops in an effort to reclaim that land. Russia sure as fawk isn't going to accept a peace deal that doesn't include lifting sanctions. Are you suggesting we enforce some economic punishment on Russia like Europe tried to do to post ww1 Germany?

Sure, spending is an issue. But Trump isn't cutting spending to get the deficit under control. He's indiscriminately making massive cuts everywhere.....really not having any clue about what he's breaking in the process.....all in order to pass through another massive tax cut that will benefit very few (who don't need it). And much like the 2017 tax cut.....in the end all it's going to do is make the deficit spiral further out of control. As I posted earlier.....yes spending has gone up and has been a big contributor to the deficit. But tax cuts have been BY FAR the bigger contributor to the deficit since it all started under Reagan.

I am also against committing troop to fighting against Russia. We don't want that. And Ukraine hasn't asked for that. It's a way better deal for the United States to spend money creating new weapons for OUR military here, and send them our old shit to defend themselves with. Added bonus that they are weakening Russia in the process. The weaker Russia becomes, the more likely to see them crumble and hopefully have a regime change. We SHOULD NOT be helping to prop up that country under Putin. We should be doing what we can to shut them down...and if it can be done indirectly?

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Rob, strokerAce? Do either one of you work for Trump or his administration? I am willing to go with... No.
That means neither one of you know what this administrations plans and goals are. Clearly you don't listen this admin when they give you an idea of those plans and goals. Do you think it is more productive to claim they plan to **** America and side with Communism just because Orange Man Bad? Does that sound like either of you are speaking rationally or intelligently?

We have been doing business with Russia for many years and have shared a diplomatic relationship with Russia for over 200 years. Trump mending things with Russia is not him being a puppet for Putin. It is him doing his job, like many presidents before him, many Democrats. Business with China? Since 1784. You two have no real complaints here except Trump. Why don't you two mellow out and let him do his job. Maybe show some respect as he is there, doing something the two of you couldn't do even though you act like you know better from the safety of your keyboards.

Agreed on both counts. And the relationship can change on a dime - ie we went from allies to the cold war rather quickly.

They get all bent out of shape when Trump says anything, but Trump is hyperbolic and certainly not above using misdirection. Lets see how many and how severe tariffs will actually be. And ironically, you never heard the left whine and complain about team Blue's economic sanctions which function very similarly to how Trump has used/threaten tariffs. And of course tariffs are nothing new either, for example Obama tariffed Chinese textiles, but that was a one day blip on the news radar compared to the never ending cacophony that Trump's mere mention of tariffs causes.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

China and Russia are each others biggest allies. Yes republicans want us to believe that China is an existential threat....and Russia is our new friend.

Nobody has said that Russia is our new friend. Total strawman argument.

If China were attacking sovereign nations right now....I'd expect the US to step up and do something about it. Not attempt to help them.

If China attacked a sovereign nation, then there is a chance we would stand up and do something. OTOH if China was engaged in a 2 year war that was a drag on the global economy, I would hope that the US would try to find a path to peace.

Sure, spending is an issue. But Trump isn't cutting spending to get the deficit under control. He's indiscriminately making massive cuts everywhere.....really not having any clue about what he's breaking in the process.....all in order to pass through another massive tax cut that will benefit very few (who don't need it). And much like the 2017 tax cut.....in the end all it's going to do is make the deficit spiral further out of control. As I posted earlier.....yes spending has gone up and has been a big contributor to the deficit. But tax cuts have been BY FAR the bigger contributor to the deficit since it all started under Reagan.

I am also against committing troop to fighting against Russia. We don't want that. And Ukraine hasn't asked for that. It's a way better deal for the United States to spend money creating new weapons for OUR military here, and send them our old shit to defend themselves with. Added bonus that they are weakening Russia in the process. The weaker Russia becomes, the more likely to see them crumble and hopefully have a regime change. We SHOULD NOT be helping to prop up that country under Putin. We should be doing what we can to shut them down...and if it can be done indirectly?

Trump is not making massive cuts everywhere. The 2017 tax cut didn't cause the deficit to spiral out of control, Covid spending caused the deficit to spiral out of control - intellectual honestly please.

I'm all for the current approach of bleeding Russia. In many ways this stalemate benefits US. Many analysts have said this war sets Russia back a generation. However, the American public voted for a guy who clearly ran on ending the war in Ukraine and support for "unending" support of Ukraine has been trending down, while support for ending the war ASAP is trending up. I don't about causing Russia to collapse, that can be risky, we can end up with somebody worse than Putin or waste a lot lives & money and end up with different variant of Putin. Does a weakened Russia become a target for China and thus creating a bigger problem that we have less influence over.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

At the same time Russia also fears China, which they should. Keep in mind they had a border conflict until ~20 years ago.

Every country should fear being in bed with China...China only cares about China

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Yes republicans want us to believe that China is an existential threat

I don't care what Republicans believe...with even a causal bit of research it's obvious that China is our enemy...

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Every country should fear being in bed with China...China only cares about China

Agreed. Everybody is like that to some degree, but China seems to be particularly self centered. IMHO, America has become particularly unself-centered to our detriment since Iraqi Freedom. That's a big reason Trump won.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

I don't care what Republicans believe...with even a causal bit of research it's obvious that China is our enemy...

Maybe they think they're helping us by providing fentanyl precursors to drug cartels. Basically they're reducing demand for opium out of Afghanistan and therefore hitting the Taliban's pocketbook. They're just trying to help us out.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

Agreed on both counts. And the relationship can change on a dime - ie we went from allies to the cold war rather quickly.

They get all bent out of shape when Trump says anything, but Trump is hyperbolic and certainly not above using misdirection. Lets see how many and how severe tariffs will actually be. And ironically, you never heard the left whine and complain about team Blue's economic sanctions which function very similarly to how Trump has used/threaten tariffs. And of course tariffs are nothing new either, for example Obama tariffed Chinese textiles, but that was a one day blip on the news radar compared to the never ending cacophony that Trump's mere mention of tariffs causes.

True but the majority of media is heavily biased to the left... they probably got a call that night to stop talking about it.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Averages confuse me? Ok, confuse me with an average Rob.

"average is only useful for lazy people simplifying numbers or for nefarious means" -Thxone

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

The manufacturing doesn't have to come back to America. What needs to happen is the deficit needs to be reduced significantly. As I said, it's one thing to have these unbalanced trade relations with Vietnam, quite another to have that type of trade relationship with first world super power. I guess you also ignored my comments about Mexico. Typical debating tactics portray everybody else as idiots and simpletons and ignore any attempt to expand the discussion beyond the simplest analyst.

I'm sure AtlantaFed will continue to drop that estimate until the actual figures come out. And exactly what has Trump done to trigger the drop in GDP? Ghost jobs, inflation, etc, all occurred under Biden.

In an open economy, you can't have low wages and expensive goods.
It just doesn't work.

We can't produce goods cheaply enough for own own citizens to buy them, but you want Chinese citizens to buy them?
HUH?

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Rob, strokerAce? Do either one of you work for Trump or his administration? I am willing to go with... No.
That means neither one of you know what this administrations plans and goals are.

Which means YOU don't either.
Yet you regularly think you are "educating" the other members here on how things are.
Ironic.

Or, are you going to be like your alter ego Okd_Slapper, and pretend you are a "government insider"?

Clearly you don't listen this admin when they give you an idea of those plans and goals. Do you think it is more productive to claim they plan to **** America and side with Communism just because Orange Man Bad? Does that sound like either of you are speaking rationally or intelligently?

"A concept of a plan" is not a plan, and this "bob and weave" bullshit is just that.

We have been doing business with Russia for many years and have shared a diplomatic relationship with Russia for over 200 years. Trump mending things with Russia is not him being a puppet for Putin. It is him doing his job, like many presidents before him, many Democrats. Business with China? Since 1784. You two have no real complaints here except Trump. Why don't you two mellow out and let him do his job. Maybe show some respect as he is there, doing something the two of you couldn't do even though you act like you know better from the safety of your keyboards.

Show done respect for a ******, racist, misogynist, felon? Or for Putin?

Either way, no. My respect is earned, not granted because a sycophant tells me to.

 

[stocker08 10+ year member]

Nobody has said that Russia is our new friend. Total strawman argument.

If China attacked a sovereign nation, then there is a chance we would stand up and do something. OTOH if China was engaged in a 2 year war that was a drag on the global economy, I would hope that the US would try to find a path to peace.

Trump is not making massive cuts everywhere. The 2017 tax cut didn't cause the deficit to spiral out of control, Covid spending caused the deficit to spiral out of control - intellectual honestly please.

I'm all for the current approach of bleeding Russia. In many ways this stalemate benefits US. Many analysts have said this war sets Russia back a generation. However, the American public voted for a guy who clearly ran on ending the war in Ukraine and support for "unending" support of Ukraine has been trending down, while support for ending the war ASAP is trending up. I don't about causing Russia to collapse, that can be risky, we can end up with somebody worse than Putin or waste a lot lives & money and end up with different variant of Putin. Does a weakened Russia become a target for China and thus creating a bigger problem that we have less influence over.

Finding a path to peace is a great idea. That's hardly what Trump has proposed. He has proposed that Ukraine surrender with no guarantees that Russia won't simply start attacking them again after signing over the land that Russia has stolen.....which has basically been what Putin has been repeatedly doing.

You want intellectual honesty? Hopefully you directed that towards a mirror. The 2017 tax cuts absolutely caused the deficit to spiral further out of control. And yes....covid spending helped as well. Difference is that covid spending isn't ongoing while these tax cuts ARE. Trump wants to make the 2017 tax cuts permanent. Kind of a different animal than the covid spending. Or wait.....after the covid spending and stimulus ended.....did deficits drop back down? No? Hmmmm.

I don't care what Republicans believe...with even a causal bit of research it's obvious that China is our enemy...

And Russia is....what exactly? Have you by chance ever heard of the Cold War?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

And Russia is....what exactly? Have you by chance ever heard of the Cold War?

The only threat Russia poses to us is their nukes...China is the real threat but lord forbid we don't get plastic bs on the cheap