Current events discussion

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I know for a fact importers will absorb (some of) the tariff.

And the importers will look to import stock that costs them less in tariffs

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Right now mexico allows free run for immigrants from other countries to move through mexico to our border. Taking a hit to gdp from tariffs is bargaining point to get the Mexican government to quit that nonsense...

Okay, so you're saying use tariffs like a stick to get Mexico to help control immigration. IMHO, Trump has always presented tariffs as an economic issue to help return jobs/manufacturing to the US.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

desire for people to leave a country and come here?

The route through mexico being taken away will make much much harder to get here illegally. The tariff threat is all about leverage to put a stop to that

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

And the importers will look to import stock that costs them less in tariffs

Exactly, they will employ economist and financial analysts to minimize the impact the tariffs on their bottom line. If you have a high enough margin product, then it can make sense to eat the whole tariff.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Exactly, they will employ economist and financial analysts to minimize the impact the tariffs on their bottom line. If you have a high enough margin product, then it can make sense to eat the whole tariff.

Seriously doubt they'd continue to pay the tariff when anything that Mexico produces can be produced else minus the 25% tariff. And a potential 25% tariff will kill the margin for importers

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

The route through mexico being taken away will make much much harder to get here illegally. The tariff threat is all about leverage to put a stop to that

What "route through Mexico" is taken away by me paying an extra $50 (half of which goes to the US gov't) for my TV?

I'm not busting balls here. I'm legitimately asking for how the non-interrelated situations are being tied together.

How does giving a US retailer more profit, and paying the US government yet another tax for products, cause a foreign government to make our citizens want drugs less, and their own citizens want to "stay home"?

If they are tied together as is being claimed, I want to know HOW.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

How does giving a US retailer more profit, and paying the US government yet another tax for products, cause a foreign government to make our citizens want drugs less, and their own citizens want to "stay home"?

The retailer isn't getting more profit.

Simplified example:

You buy candy bars for $1 each from walmart to sell at the public park for $1.50. Now there's a 25% Walmart tariff because of blue smocks the employees wear(a ridiculous example but it's a behavior that is frowned upon in the example). Now you can keep on buying from walmart and accept reduction in profit or raise your price to $1.75 which will lead to fewer candy bars sold by you. Either way your candy bar business has suffered.

Or you can find a new source for candy bars to maintain your margins and keep your prices the same. Which leads to walmart taking a hit in their sales. Now you have leverage to discuss ditching the blue smocks. Even just the threat of the 25% walmart tariff would be enough to begin talks about the blue smock.

The 25% tariff is the same principle as taxes aimed at curbing behaviors like cigarette taxes. It's just leverage to get the Mexican government to quit turning a blind eye to problems that they enable

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

The retailer isn't getting more profit.

Simplified example:

You buy candy bars for $1 each from walmart to sell at the public park for $1.50. Now there's a 25% Walmart tariff because of blue smocks the employees wear(a ridiculous example but it's a behavior that is frowned upon in the example). Now you can keep on buying from walmart and accept reduction in profit or raise your price to $1.75 which will lead to fewer candy bars sold by you. Either way your candy bar business has suffered.

Or you can find a new source for candy bars to maintain your margins and keep your prices the same. Which leads to walmart taking a hit in their sales. Now you have leverage to discuss ditching the blue smocks. Even just the threat of the 25% walmart tariff would be enough to begin talks about the blue smock.

The 25% tariff is the same principle as taxes aimed at curbing behaviors like cigarette taxes. It's just leverage to get the Mexican government to quit turning a blind eye to problems that they enable

Retailers will get more profit, because their markup is determined by aiming for a specific GPM.

WalMart is known to operate at a 50% GPM, which effectively results in them doubling cost to get the retail price.

If they pay $100, the sell for $200. That's $100 profit.
If they have to pay $ 125 due to a tariff, they sell for $250. That's $125 profit.

The US government gets $25 tariff, and the retailer gets $25 more profit.
The exporter gets the same money they did before.

A retailer isn't going to chop into their GPM to keep prices low for the consumer. They adhere to a margin because it pays the bills, and gives them the profits they want.
It's just how retail works.

So, giving $25 more to WalMart and $25 to our government does WHAT to convince China to stop sending the fentanyl we demand?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Retailers will get more profit, because their markup is determined by aiming for a specific GPM.

Higher prices reduce sales...it's not a one way street.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Higher prices reduce sales...it's not a one way street.

We seem to be hitting a wall where you can't explain how us paying higher prices will reduce the US demand for drugs, or foreigners' desire to come here (legally or illegally).
But those are the two claimed benefits of paying higher prices for stuff.

Walmart is the low hanging fruit for a business example b/c they are the biggest in the world.
This is their sales growth year over year.

Use 2018 as the benchmark, because of Trumps China tariffs.
What kind of sales growth did they have before the tariffs, and after the tariffs?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

We seem to be hitting a wall where you can't explain how us paying higher prices will reduce the US demand for drugs, or foreigners' desire to come here (legally or illegally).
But those are the two claimed benefits of paying higher prices for stuff.

Walmart is the low hanging fruit for a business example b/c they are the biggest in the world.
This is their sales growth year over year.

Use 2018 as the benchmark, because of Trumps China tariffs.
What kind of sales growth did they have before the tariffs, and after the tariffs?
View attachment 61589

You really can't see how one thing affects another?

Taxes go where? To whom? - Governments.
Who pays these taxes? Businesses and consumers.
Tariffs affect businesses and consumers. - Tariffs cause higher prices - sales decline - lower profits - less taxes paid.
Governments lose money when tariffs are made.

The US to foreign government - Secure your border or we will impose tariffs of __% on such and such products. The less you secure your border the higher the tariff %. The foreign government looks at the numbers and realizes how much they will lose and they secure their own borders.

Kind of like Unions fighting for the employees. Trump is fighting for US citizens.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

We seem to be hitting a wall where you can't explain how us paying higher prices will reduce the US demand for drugs, or foreigners' desire to come here (legally or illegally).

No you're just arguing a singular point as usual...the second you concede that tariffs affect more then consumer you're questioning won't be necessary

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

That's the creation story, but I asked about us being slaves. How are we slaves to the Gods?

Research it yourself. We're a less capable worker species, like district 9. We're the dumb worker bugs that just keep the system churning but don't direct it. Society is being developed in a direction by non human intelligence. Think like UFO's in underground military bases and things like that, experiments that breach dimensions and the inside of the mind.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Research it yourself. We're a less capable worker species, like district 9. We're the dumb worker bugs that just keep the system churning but don't direct it. Society is being developed in a direction by non human intelligence. Think like UFO's in underground military bases and things like that, experiments that breach dimensions and the inside of the mind.

When I search for how I'm enslaved it's just a bunch of stuff about "wage slaves."

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

You really can't see how one thing affects another?

No, I can't. Trump attempted trade tariffs with China in 2018. It didn't slow imports a whit.

Can you provide any evidence that this reduced drugs coming into the country, or illegal immigrants coming into the country?

Taxes go where? To whom? - Governments.
Who pays these taxes? Businesses and consumers.
Tariffs affect businesses and consumers. - Tariffs cause higher prices - sales decline - lower profits - less taxes paid.
Governments lose money when tariffs are made.

Look at Walmarts sales after Trump imposed tariffs on China in 2018.
They continued the same growth they had achieved before the tariffs.
Government gets tariff money, government collects more taxes.
Net gain.

The US to foreign government - Secure your border or we will impose tariffs of __% on such and such products. The less you secure your border the higher the tariff %. The foreign government looks at the numbers and realizes how much they will lose and they secure their own borders.

Tell me about a border patrol in the US, Mexico, Canada, or China that keeps people from LEAVING.
I've never been to an international border where they tried to stop me from leaving.
It's always the destination country that may deny entry, securing things.

Kind of like Unions fighting for the employees. Trump is fighting for US citizens.

He agrees overtime pay should go away. He's pushing to directly increase prices of goods by up to 25%.
He wants to strip 40M people of healthcare.
That helps the citizens HOW?

No you're just arguing a singular point as usual...the second you concede that tariffs affect more then consumer you're questioning won't be necessary

I'm talking to the very specific benefits that have been claimed for us paying more for goods, while exporters don't get affected.

I know a tariff CAN affect the exporter, but it historically hasn't. The most recent failures have been Trump's and Bush's attempts.
There are virtually no economists who say that tariffs work for economic reasons, and that predates Trump and even Bush by multiple decades.

What magic is Trump going to perform to both make tariffs work, and to make them work to affect something entirely unrelated to the business economy. ?