CRX Take 3

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

I agree still talkin.

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

repost from ssa....

what they are trying to tell you is that a clipped signal affects the thermal power handling due to the increased heat caused by the clipping. it doesn't alter the thermal power handling any at all. a 250wrms sub stays a 250wrms sub.

they are also saying that driving an amp into clipping, even if the clipped signal is within the subs thermal power handling limits, will destroy a sub due to the increased heat of that signal. so in easy terms, a 250wrms sine wave isn't as hot as a 250wrms square wave. so while the sub can technically take the square wave, the increased heat will indeed have a negative effect on the coil.

now, to further explain their comments. now your running hotter, the impedence will rise. the increased power of a clipped signal is now a wash due to coming out of the right impedence. but the heat remains the same. it's still a clipped signal and thus can potentially alter the life the sub. and your score gets lower because your not making the power. you'v eraised the impedence.

maybe you've seen a gain with mild clipping. fine. but in most cases, clipping does not gain. it usually drops one's score. the impedence rise due to the heat is most likely the culprit. and don't forget, you have to provide the current to feed that clipped signal. so now battery voltage can be an issue.

but hey, what do i know, lol? i didn't take physics in school, so i'm more then likely completely wrong. oh well, that's life, eh?

oh, and everyone is welcome at ssa. even if referred by chris. just don't act like him //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

He isnt talking anymore...

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/hilarious.gif.02a037aad04aa96f19982b298a3d70a8.gif

good post mrray.

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

thanks you chevy. i try every now and again to make a little sense, lol.

and lilmanic....that quote in your sig. you can tell it's fake. all the words are spelled properly. sorry man, someone had to tell ya.

hehe, helping any way i can!!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

hahha sorry man its a habit... you know spelling things correctly

but maybe you could tell i pulled it off a website.... anytime fryman pulls something off a website you can tell because all the theories are spelled and punctuated correctly

just a little aside,

nobody is taking into account the effect the rapid temperature rise has on the copper windings //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif... i wasnt talking about burning failure... more like a quick POP of a winding wire, but again waht do i know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Kent, your a meany head. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Hicks, You know nussing...therefore I will send you a truck box with internal aeros to help your SPL cause.

Thank me later.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

repost from ssa....


what they are trying to tell you is that a clipped signal affects the thermal power handling due to the increased heat caused by the clipping. it doesn't alter the thermal power handling any at all. a 250wrms sub stays a 250wrms sub.

they are also saying that driving an amp into clipping, even if the clipped signal is within the subs thermal power handling limits, will destroy a sub due to the increased heat of that signal. so in easy terms, a 250wrms sine wave isn't as hot as a 250wrms square wave. so while the sub can technically take the square wave, the increased heat will indeed have a negative effect on the coil.

now, to further explain their comments. now your running hotter, the impedence will rise. the increased power of a clipped signal is now a wash due to coming out of the right impedence. but the heat remains the same. it's still a clipped signal and thus can potentially alter the life the sub. and your score gets lower because your not making the power. you'v eraised the impedence.

maybe you've seen a gain with mild clipping. fine. but in most cases, clipping does not gain. it usually drops one's score. the impedence rise due to the heat is most likely the culprit. and don't forget, you have to provide the current to feed that clipped signal. so now battery voltage can be an issue.

but hey, what do i know, lol? i didn't take physics in school, so i'm more then likely completely wrong. oh well, that's life, eh?

oh, and everyone is welcome at ssa. even if referred by chris. just don't act like him //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

This was the kind of explanation I was looking for and it makes scence.

A $20 walmart amp still wont blow a Type-R. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

This was the kind of explanation I was looking for and it makes scence.
A $20 walmart amp still wont blow a Type-R. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Um...2 pages ago I said that the heat caused by clipping will adversly affect your numbers...

sorry I didnt dumb it down for you.

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

Um...2 pages ago I said that the heat caused by clipping will adversly affect your numbers...
sorry I didnt dumb it down for you.

Stateing something with out reasoning is useless. It is not a matter of dumbing it down.

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

hahha sorry man its a habit... you know spelling things correctly
but maybe you could tell i pulled it off a website.... anytime fryman pulls something off a website you can tell because all the theories are spelled and punctuated correctly

just a little aside,

nobody is taking into account the effect the rapid temperature rise has on the copper windings //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif... i wasnt talking about burning failure... more like a quick POP of a winding wire, but again waht do i know //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

i really don't have that habit either though, lol. i tend to think faster then my fingers can type and i transpose letters a lot.

i have just about come to that exact conclusion myself. i believe i even mentioned that somewhere the other day, lol. oh well....

explain your thought on the rapid temperature rise? i believe i know what you are referring too, but i'm no genius. enlighten me, please.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Stateing something with out reasoning is useless. It is not a matter of dumbing it down.

So...your stating that you didn't know that Clipping would cause a rise in temperature...and that you didn't know that a rise in temperature would cause a rise in impedance, and that you didn't know, that a rise in impedance would cause a decrease in power and that you didn't know that a decrease in power would cause a decrease in SPL and that you didnt't know that a decrease in SPL would mean its quieter....

but yet, every SPL thread you post in, you are an SPL god and that knowlege of physics will help you achieve a high SPL score...it wont... a car is not a controled envioroment.

 

[mrray13 10+ year member]

This was the kind of explanation I was looking for and it makes scence.
A $20 walmart amp still wont blow a Type-R. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

IMO, probably not. and here's why. the type r is rated somewhere around 500wrms, correct? a $20 walmart amp (i'm probably putting WAAAAYYYY too much thought into this, so please forgive me) is going to be a 50wrms amp, if it's lucky. so what's going to happen is your going to be feeding the sub 100wrms clipped, and even with that increased heat, it's still going to be well with in the r's thermal rating. HOWEVER, throw that same amp on the (please gods forgive me for this blasphamy) almighty funky pup. and clip it. the pup won't last a turds chance in a new toilet.

and to back up chevyaudio's earlier comments. the OP is using a possible 3kwrms unclipped, on a rated 2kwrms sub, which means, by rating, he's already overdriving the sub. so your telling him to send a possible 6kwrms clipped signal into it. that's a shitton of added heat brother. and all for a possible tenth? it's simply not worth it when that minimal gain can be achieved through other means.

but that's just my opinion.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

i really don't have that habit either though, lol. i tend to think faster then my fingers can type and i transpose letters a lot.

i have just about come to that exact conclusion myself. i believe i even mentioned that somewhere the other day, lol. oh well....

explain your thought on the rapid temperature rise? i believe i know what you are referring too, but i'm no genius. enlighten me, please.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/peace.gif.2db28b618ed8d1964ebbe2f5021d2c39.gif

A square wave puts peak power to the coil for a prolonged time ( like 3x longer than a sine ) that raises the temperature much more rapidly and can lead to the coil "poping" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Immacomputer 10+ year member]

So...your stating that you didn't know that Clipping would cause a rise in temperature...

It's the extra power that causes the rise in heat, not the square wave.

I could give 2 shits about what people think about me on the net. Only time I don't respect you is when you talk of things you dont have experience with....and try and disprove someone that does.

I have a ton of experience with clipping low powered amps on moderate powered speakers but you don't take anything I say seriously either.

You are on the right track with everything that you say but you won't admit to the reasoning behind it.

Yes, clipping causes extra power and that is the cause of the excess heat. When you're talking thousands of watts, you're talking even more thousands of watts being fed to the sub. This is why subs "dont seep to like clipping all that much". Do you think those same subs getting 4kw would like to have 6kw flowing through them? I don't think they would like it and things would heat up really fast. You see, you know what's going on but you're blaming it on the signal and not the extra power.