Corner box with 0.43ft^3 of space.. Need help finding 10" subs for this airspace

[Chromatic]

Hey guys..

This box is priced well,.. and is obviously smaller to save space,.. a goal of mine -- (Not after crazy bass) .

350Z Subwoofer Enclosure Sub Box 1 10" Corner Mount | eBay

It is for a 10" sub.

With these stats:

Mounting depth - 6.25"

Mounting diameter - 9 1/8" (9.125") Adjustable by request

Total volume of airspace - 0.43ft^3

Volume per chamber - 0.43ft^3

Chambers - 1

Style - Sealed (non Ported)

Construction - Premium MDF (not the thin, lighweight, porous mdf - we do not sacrifice sound qaulity to save a couple pounds)

MDF thickness -0.75"

Finish - Carpet

Color - Black (for 350z's with Frost interior we do have that option in color)

Terminals - 1

What sub would work best in such a tight sealed enclosure? Would throwing a JL 10 W0 , that recommends larger area sound terrible in that? Any other brands that fit this type of cubic feet of space?

Click to read more...

 

[Spooney 10+ year member]

Thats a real small enclosure man. May be better suited for an 8" driver. If you insist on running a ten stuff some polyfill in there and hope for the best. I dont have any driver recommendations for that small of a space.

 

[Chromatic]

Gotcha..

What would you recommend for this enclosure which is huge for 1 , 10" sub?

I'm after just a nice sounding stereo with a little bass.. nothing that rattles the car/hatchback.. Can I still run a single 10" sub in an enclosure like this without it being a "Boom boom boom" typical bass car going down the road? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Zenclosures 350Z 1 10" Type 2 Sub Subwoofer Box New | eBay

And, I like JL Audio -- What do you think about their W0 and W1 series? The magnets and ends of them are much different than their W2 and higher series.. For my needs,.. Would a JL 10" W0 or W1 fit the bill?

 

[Brandon@GZUSA 10+ year member]

I wouldn't purchase the first box if it were my money and vehicle. It's a small box to begin with, factor in the woofer displacement and there isn't much left.

For the second box, most subs that are recommended for a sealed enclosure with a recommended .5-1.0 should work fine. However; at the cost they're asking for the box, why not go to one of the local retailers and discuss your needs with them? I'm sure that you could probably come out much happier with the end result.

 

[bbeljefe]

Just to clarify, with the options you listed, there's no danger that you'll be accused of going boom, boom, boom.

If all you're looking for is low end reinforcement, look away from putting tens in tiny enclosures and look at an 8" sub. With the space you have, a properly ported, quality 8" sub will make all the low bass you need and it won't make any of that bass outside the car where you don't want it to be. Matter of fact, I could make a 6.5" sub do what you're wanting to do because you don't need a lot of cone area, you need a well designed sub stage.

 

[Chromatic]

I wouldn't purchase the first box if it were my money and vehicle. It's a small box to begin with, factor in the woofer displacement and there isn't much left. For the second box, most subs that are recommended for a sealed enclosure with a recommended .5-1.0 should work fine. However; at the cost they're asking for the box, why not go to one of the local retailers and discuss your needs with them? I'm sure that you could probably come out much happier with the end result.

Sound advice, much appreciated sir.

I generally always start with one plan, and end up with something bigger than I planned.

So, My mind is 90% made up I'm gonna go with the "Second box" -- the full size 8 Cubic foot box (which they will fill when you order to match the exact recommendations of volume preferred by the sub you are going to put it in it.

Well, the price for the Cas stuff is just insane. It's $350-$800,.. The "Zenclolsures website has VERY reasonable prices imho for their boxes..

Here is their plethora range of boxes for my car:

Custom Sub Enclosure | Affordable Sub Box

All on that page will fit custom in my car (made for it).

On that page, which box would you go with to get the best sound quality from your sub.

I've thought of going 8" -- But, since I"m probably (90% likely) to go with something like:

Custom Sub Enclosure | Affordable Sub Box

That's their "Stealth" version of the other similar box.. It takes up less space,.. looks a bit better in the car (more factory).. and of course has plenty of room on it to mount my amps, (Should I use the box itself for amp mounting. I'm not all in for showing off lots of hardware.. but if it looks "good" then It's fine. Mounting amps on boxes like above,.. is probably fairly convenient for self installs I would imagine.

Now.. I AM definitely still considering local shops. One problem is Car Audio has taken a big hit since the recession.. All the shops that were within 15 miles of me (on a MAJOR road) closed. There are still a half dozen shops in an area 20 miles away.. Probably 10 or so. All are "Non-chain" and a few do Car audio only.

I think a shop that ONLY does car audio is my best bet (or primarily car audio, maybe split a little with high end home theater speakers) -- Because their installers are likely more skilled. Compared to chain stores.

Prices can be better in these stores as well because they have the ability to "haggle" with you.

In my experience anyway.. A local shop before when I was looking at X speakers for $250.. and they were showing off the $375 speakers.. They eventually said they would throw in free Sub enclosure and wiring if I went with the higher model.. It's stuff like that, that gets them the "up-sale" and makes me feel like I got a deal (when I really didn't.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif ).

Your a Vendor, so it says. (Or I assume). What would a local shop charge for mid range Components (6.5 in doors.. .75" tweets in a-pillars).. Say I brought that sub box or they could match it themselves price wise.. and put in a JL Audio W1 or so caliber 10" sub,.. The amp(s) needed, and installation? (Remember I have the Pioneer headunit that is a good Digital audio processor Pre-out for such a build (so I read)...

Just a ballpark figure.. For a mid range build. Let's say Box = $100, Component 6.5"'s and tweets = $300,.. Sub = $110.. Amps = $150-175 ish retail.

I simply can't spend $1500 like before on a speaker up grade for what I really want, and "need". Most everyone has said you can't get a 3 speaker setup installed even with your already installed headunit for $600-750. That true? I don't want to throw over a grand either to be honest. That's on the borderline of going "Boom boom" //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif - I started at $350 budget.. not It's closer to $600-750. Am I even in the ballpark?

Thanks

 

[Chromatic]

Just to clarify, with the options you listed, there's no danger that you'll be accused of going boom, boom, boom.
If all you're looking for is low end reinforcement, look away from putting tens in tiny enclosures and look at an 8" sub. With the space you have, a properly ported, quality 8" sub will make all the low bass you need and it won't make any of that bass outside the car where you don't want it to be. Matter of fact, I could make a 6.5" sub do what you're wanting to do because you don't need a lot of cone area, you need a well designed sub stage.

Interesting. Be nice to listen to the sub in the car to determine what size and box I wanted.. sigh.

Main reason I'm pushing a 10" JL low end version and the $129 box with 8 cubic foot (which can be filled to spec) -- is because monetarily A 10" sub and box are pretty much that same cost as an 8" sub.

Let me ask you this.

I don't want to do something like this for like $800 and end up wanting a little more for whatever reason. IF I went with say a JL W1 10" sub.. put 200-250watts RMS on it,.. Is it easy to dial that sub down as much as I want?

In other words sort of turn the 10 into acting like an 8" would bass wise.. and if in the mood cranking the bass up (gain) etc on it?

All I can think of is doing the system with a cross-over built in (which frankly.. I had a lot of luck with "cheap" brand cross-overs" -- I put an MTX $50 Crossover on my last 2 - 12" system and the crossover made the system night and day different. Before crossover it was really "static" -- you were limited to the headunit adjustments which no matter what head unit you get just can't compete with analog SWITCHED (like knows, sliders, etc) of a cross-over.

A bunch of the Cross-overs I've seen around $60 or so have a "bass Knob" that come with them.. Which I would have mounted somewhere convenient to reach while driving.

I'm after a PUNCH bass.. Which I remember when I did my last system it was something like this.

If you are PRIMARILY into rap.. Go 15's.. due to the long, sustained low frequency notes in rap songs. If you listened to Rap, Rock and were more of a mix -- Then go with 12's..

If you wanted better response time of the woofer and more of a Kick/thump than a slow 'Boooom" you went with 10's.

Hardly anyone went with 8's.. but this was for 'systems'.

Maybe you decipher what I'm trying to get out of you from that statement. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Chromatic]

I think I found a great amp to go with my setup. Good price, brand seems reasonably mid range.

It pushes 4 x 75 watts , 4 channel.. RMS. OR, 75 x 2 , and bridge other 2 for 180 watts RMS (perfect for that low end JL sub).

That's with front speakers at 75watts RMS.

I found RAVE reviews on this speaker brand,..and this particular speaker setup. It's CDT:

Cl-61cv - CDT Audio 6.5" Convertible Coaxial Component Speaker System | WoofersEtc

Neat design as you can separate the .75 inch tweeters, or mount them in center of mid cone.. And they have swiveling speakers that allow for a slight angling upward for better directional sound.

They run 100watts RMS at 4ohms.

If I combined it with this sub:

JL Audio 10w0v3-4 -- Rated from 75 to 300 watts RMS.

And used THIS amp...:

Amazon.com: JBL MS-A1004 100 Watt x 4-Channel Amplifier: Car Electronics

Which, correct me if I'm wrong,.. I can run the components mids/tweeters off two channels at 100watts RMS at 4ohms.. Then bridge the 3rd and 4th channel to get 200 Watts RMS to throw to that 10" JL W0 sub.

That looks like very much in my price range, and solid mid range speakers. Which gives me mids and components,.. gives me a 10 (but the lowest model of JL Audio).. and runs it all of one JBL amp (which sure looks nice.. ) I"ve been having trouble finding amps that stay at 4 ohms for 100 watts x 4 (or that will bridge and stay at 4ohms -- for the sub). This one says it will do it.

That's $590 for 10" JL sub, 6'5 " mids with component tweeters AND a quality 4 channel amp that will power them all fine.

So what's left.. the box. If I go with Z-enclosures I can get a box for $100,.. so total is now $690.

If I install myself.. I add what, another $75-$100 for wiring kit (fuse box, etc)..

Putting a self install at $790.

Now,. If I went BACK to the parts without the wiring kit -- for $690 -- Think I could get a shop to install that 3 speaker setup, with one amp (and provided custom fit sub box) for $200? I'd assume it'd take professional about 2-3 hours at most to install 3 speakers, and one amp. Let's put labor at 70 bucks an hours.. and you have $210 labor to install.. and The total would be $890.

If I could get a very clean sounding system, installed for $900.. I'd bite the bullet. (Yes the budget just went up again.)

I think $900 surely must be "doable" for my wants.. Nothing major, low end of the Mid range amps, speakers and sub.. + install cost.

Amazon.com: JBL MS-A1004 100 Watt x 4-Channel Amplifier: Car Electronics

A ton of people have talked about these being mid range speakers that perform well above their price.

Thoughts?

$200 or under for a pair of Components new sounds good to me.

I'd never heard of CDT before now, but people are saying they swapped out their Alpine, polk audio, etc.. and had noticeable improvement from these "under-priced" speakers.

That setup would work with that amp ya? The 10" wants 75-300 watts.. Pushing 200watts on it is about in the "optimum" zone JL Audio has outlined on the specs for the sub.

 

[Chromatic]

The previous amp was Class "D" (the JBL).

Found this one:

Sound Ordnance™ M-4100 4-channel car amplifier — 100 watts RMS x 4 at Crutchfield.com

4 channel.. can run the front components 100watts rms x 2,.. and bridge last 2 channels for 270Watts! At 4ohms. That's perfect,.. Brand may not be.. but finally an amp that's (AB) classified,.. that runs 100 watts RMS in channel 1 and 2 for front mids and highs.. and then bridged for 270 watts (above the "optimal" ) range for the JL sub. But still 30 watts below "Max RMS 300watt".

This setup would be 120 for amp (I'm going to bet you guys are going to say that amp is a piece of crap //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif ) -- and $180 for fronts,.. $100 for sub.. $100 for enclosure.. which totals to:

$500 - -With a "$500" part selection.. I know I can get a shop to install for say 200-300.. And I'd throw in a $60 crossover of some sort for control/tuning.

I really have a good feeling about those Front speakers CDT,.. the amp the price is too good to be true.. so the brand must ****? Anyone have a link to an amp that is 'good enough' to run 100 watts x 2 for fronts and 250-300 watts in bridged 3-4 channel mode for sub (all at 4 ohms) ?

 

[Chromatic]

I know I keep spamming my own thread -- but it's also serving as a log of parts as I research.

These components look like a good compromise between quality and money at $150 for Kicker 40CSS654 6-1/2" component speaker system at Crutchfield.com

6.5" mid, /.75" tweeter (both are recognized to fit in my car exactly.) Run 100watts RMS.

The sub JL Audio 10W0v3-4 W0v3 Series 10" 4-ohm subwoofer at Crutchfield.com $100 (JL 10")

The sub box: Custom Sub Enclosure | Affordable Sub Box (Custom designed to fit under crossbar in car) -- Has 8 Cubic feet of space.. so has more than enough for JL 10". ($130)

And again this Amp: Amazon.com: JBL MS-A1004 100 Watt x 4-Channel Amplifier: Car Electronics

4 channel.. 2 channels x 100 RMS (fronts).. Bridge last 2 channels for 200 watts at 4ohms for Sub.

($310) = $690 for this build minus install.

Just for the *heck* of it.. if anyone knows a good 8" sub in a box that will fit in the dimensions of "18X14.5X6.5" (That would fit into the factory slot behind the seat -- to keep that option on the table.)

 

[bbeljefe]

Interesting. Be nice to listen to the sub in the car to determine what size and box I wanted.. sigh.
Main reason I'm pushing a 10" JL low end version and the $129 box with 8 cubic foot (which can be filled to spec) -- is because monetarily A 10" sub and box are pretty much that same cost as an 8" sub.

Let me ask you this.

I don't want to do something like this for like $800 and end up wanting a little more for whatever reason. IF I went with say a JL W1 10" sub.. put 200-250watts RMS on it,.. Is it easy to dial that sub down as much as I want?

In other words sort of turn the 10 into acting like an 8" would bass wise.. and if in the mood cranking the bass up (gain) etc on it?

All I can think of is doing the system with a cross-over built in (which frankly.. I had a lot of luck with "cheap" brand cross-overs" -- I put an MTX $50 Crossover on my last 2 - 12" system and the crossover made the system night and day different. Before crossover it was really "static" -- you were limited to the headunit adjustments which no matter what head unit you get just can't compete with analog SWITCHED (like knows, sliders, etc) of a cross-over.

A bunch of the Cross-overs I've seen around $60 or so have a "bass Knob" that come with them.. Which I would have mounted somewhere convenient to reach while driving.

I'm after a PUNCH bass.. Which I remember when I did my last system it was something like this.

If you are PRIMARILY into rap.. Go 15's.. due to the long, sustained low frequency notes in rap songs. If you listened to Rap, Rock and were more of a mix -- Then go with 12's..

If you wanted better response time of the woofer and more of a Kick/thump than a slow 'Boooom" you went with 10's.

Hardly anyone went with 8's.. but this was for 'systems'.

Maybe you decipher what I'm trying to get out of you from that statement. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

The myth you just repeated is the reason why there aren't many 8" prefab boxes available. First of all, a 10 does not automatically play louder or harder than an 8. And no, 12s aren't "faster" than 15s. Every speaker that has ever played a 30 Hz tone moved in and out 60 times in one second. If they didn't, the weren't playing a 30 Hz tone. It doesn't matter if the cone is 8" in diameter or 28" in diameter, a given frequency is X number of cycles in one second, every second, for as long as that tone is played.

What happens is that people put 15s in prefab boxes that aren't suited for the driver and then they run them with a cheap amp and, they set their gains improperly. This makes those subs sound muddy or, boomy. Smaller subs don't sound as bad because they aren't as loud and generally, when someone follows that myth and chooses 12s for their preferred type of music, they put them in sealed boxes, so they're not subject to poor group delay and improper tuning like the larger subs were.

In reality, a 15 in the proper box on a good amp that's set correctly can play just as clean and "fast" as a 12 or a 10. And... an 8 in the right box on a good amp that is set correctly can play just as loud or louder than a 10 in a cruddy, confined, prefabbed box. And not only as loud but, it can also be as accurate and clean sounding. And, it will still play below 30 Hz audibly, which is in my opinion, what most people think is the sub being boomy when in reality, it's just playing notes that smaller drivers can't play audibly, if at all.

All that said... which 8, 10, 12 or 15 also makes a difference but more important than the sub itself is the box it is in. No sub can perform well in the wrong environment.

The next problem you mentioned is this whole notion that the gain on an amplifier is somehow a volume control to be twisted at the whim of the user. It is not. It is a sensitivity matching pot that should be set when the amp is installed and not touched after. It isn't set differently for big subs than small, as it is not related to speakers. Again, it matched the amplifier's input with the output voltage of the preamp and once it's set correctly, the amp will raise and lower it's output in concert with the preamplifier... regardless of what size or how many speakers is connected to it.

In the end, you'd be better off with a good quality 8" sub that would be happy in the air space you have available than you would with a larger 10 that's in a sub optimal amount of space, because when you drop the size of a sealed cabinet below optimal... low end response suffers greatly. And given that sealed boxes have abysmal low end response to begin with, you really can't afford to make it worse by shoving a sub in too small a box. And you can't overcome that by buying an overpriced sub.

Personally, if I were building a budget system in that car with the mounting locations you offered, I'd use the JBL GTO804 behind the seat in a ported enclosure. It would do well with any of the amps you listed. For one, it has 25% more xmax than the JL W0 and it requires less volume. And, it handles twice as much power... at least.

 

[Chromatic]

I see I touched a nerve.

Hey, it's what I've been told by many professionals all my life, but moreover it's what I've "heard" with my own ears. I've heard 2 JL W6's 10" subs playing and sounding much more "in time" with rock music than two JL W6 12" subs .. BOTH in exact specification boxes. I believe you, it makes sense.. And frankly doesn't make a huge difference in my decision.

I have as much space as I want to use frankly in my car.. If I go with the sealed box under the strut bar the box is 8 cubic ft of space that can be dialed down to say .65ft3 for a JL 10 W(whatever) or left at 8ft3.. just whatever the speaker is designed for it will be setup for.

I'm just wrestling with the idea of putting a sub in a factory location but not mounting it LIKE the factory did (cause that's expensive.. I have to buy the framework and filler to put in the area..etc.. to go factory) -- if I just use the "cubby hole" Then I'd put an 8" in a sealed box.. firing up or down.. in that box behind the drivers seat. I've looked at powered boxes.. but they get poor reviews..

And the reason I'm wrestling with sub location is... while I'd like to NOT see the sub and have all my trunk space, I don't want to fork out a bunch of money and have fairly poor sounding "bass". IE: X hundred for amp, X hundred for sub, X hundred for box (and that's just the sub) --

I'm not trying to perpetuate myths,... I read and understand everything you wrote, and am not disagreeing.

I ASKED about the volume/gain of the sub.. I did not say it's something to be toyed with... a question is different than a statement. With a cross-over with adjustment knobs,.. I KNOW you can adjust the sub's output. While the gain may be staying locked on the amp,.. the cross-over is either cutting frequency response or somehow otherwise adjusting what you audibly HEAR from that speaker.

I appreciate your help,..

 

[Loudmp5 10+ year member]

You need to understand that 1 box can be the same specs as another but 1 is designed better than the other will sound better... if that makes since you need to stop and research more all your qs have answers asked a billion times and with the sub size thing your just wrong period RESEARCH

 

[mclerico83 5,000+ posts]

I see I touched a nerve.
Hey, it's what I've been told by many professionals all my life, but moreover it's what I've "heard" with my own ears. I've heard 2 JL W6's 10" subs playing and sounding much more "in time" with rock music than two JL W6 12" subs .. BOTH in exact specification boxes. I believe you, it makes sense.. And frankly doesn't make a huge difference in my decision.

I have as much space as I want to use frankly in my car.. If I go with the sealed box under the strut bar the box is 8 cubic ft of space that can be dialed down to say .65ft3 for a JL 10 W(whatever) or left at 8ft3.. just whatever the speaker is designed for it will be setup for.

I'm just wrestling with the idea of putting a sub in a factory location but not mounting it LIKE the factory did (cause that's expensive.. I have to buy the framework and filler to put in the area..etc.. to go factory) -- if I just use the "cubby hole" Then I'd put an 8" in a sealed box.. firing up or down.. in that box behind the drivers seat. I've looked at powered boxes.. but they get poor reviews..

And the reason I'm wrestling with sub location is... while I'd like to NOT see the sub and have all my trunk space, I don't want to fork out a bunch of money and have fairly poor sounding "bass". IE: X hundred for amp, X hundred for sub, X hundred for box (and that's just the sub) --

I'm not trying to perpetuate myths,... I read and understand everything you wrote, and am not disagreeing.

I ASKED about the volume/gain of the sub.. I did not say it's something to be toyed with... a question is different than a statement. With a cross-over with adjustment knobs,.. I KNOW you can adjust the sub's output. While the gain may be staying locked on the amp,.. the cross-over is either cutting frequency response or somehow otherwise adjusting what you audibly HEAR from that speaker.

I appreciate your help,..

they are not pre fabed boxes my man but yes zen makes ok enclosures but srq blows them away. he makes every box himself to order

Nissan 350z Vehicle Specific Sub Enclosure 1-10"

Nissan 350Z Vehicle Specific Sub Enclosure 2 10"

any of the boxes can be made in 8 or 10 inch. give them a call //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I would either do he single 10 in the compartment behind the seat with

w/ SD 2 10D4 Sundown Audio Slim Mount 10" Dual 4 Ohm Subwoofer Shallow Series Sub | eBay

or

single 8

Sundown Audio E8 v.3 D2 Dual 2 Ohm

the other option is the dual 10 enclosure with

Boston Acoustics G310-44 Component Car Subwoofers at Onlinecarstereo.com

w a Boston Acoustics US)

this is the route i would go for under 300 bucks you get the custom box with a g3 sub and passive radiator which will give you accurate bass response and will get low in a small enclosure. set the radiator at 30hz

 

[mclerico83 5,000+ posts]

Amazon.com: Alpine MRX-F65 4-channel Car Amplifier: Car Electronics

Ct Sounds 125 4 Amp Amplifier 125W RMS 250W Max Class A B 4 Channel 2 Ohm | eBay

i would do the ct sounds both really small amps