Cone area calculator

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

heres a pretty picture for you, 2 surfaces identical in length one has depth the other does not, think of it like a cutout of the center of a cone.
both moved in a linear pattern the same distance... which one looks like it has more volume to you?

Again, save the sarcasm for when you are right.

Putting aside my lousy paint skills and assuming same diameter and same excursion in my picture, which of those two represents more volume?

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

Looking at it from a raw basic air displacement perspective, you are correct. It will 'produce' more air than a flat diaphragm. What they don't tell you however is that much of the produced air inside the cone simply swirls around randomly, and does not add to the overall displacement of the cone itself. So even though it is producing more displacement, the net result compare to a flat diaphragm is about the same.
Hope this makes sense...

yes, perfectly what causes the swirl?

i was never trying to argue output or sound quality or even why manufactures do it the way they do it. simply the "raw basic air displacement" as you put it, but apparently if you only have around 250 posts and someone with 25,000 or 10,000 or even 3000-5000 posts says your wrong you have to be wrong. went to school for 2 years to have someone tell me geometry isn't an exact science? lol

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

Again, save the sarcasm for when you are right.

Putting aside my lousy paint skills and assuming same diameter and same excursion in my picture, which of those two represents more volume?

your such a moron, if your going to pose a valid argument pose the RIGHT ONE you idiot

if the cones linear movement is greater than that of the depth of the cone, it becomes irrelevent, but how many subs do you know that move more in their linear movement than the depth of the cone itself

and again i would loose the aura of all knowing if you don't understand basic geometry, probably not even then

 

[king ranch 5,000+ posts]

isnt the loudest subs known like possibly solo x they dont have a deep cone, and whoever set the worlds record with spl he didnt run subs that had a really deep cone, so i dont see how the depth of the cone would make a sub any louder really

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

im just going to do the raw math for you this time....

ill use a right triangle to make this easy on your little brain

a right trangle with 10in legs will have a 14.14" hypotenuse that would be the diameter while 10in would be the legth of each side of the cone.

if that "triangle" moves 1 inch it will displace 20in^2 where as is that circle moves 1 inch it will displace only 14.14in^2

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

isnt the loudest subs known like possibly solo x they dont have a deep cone, and whoever set the worlds record with spl he didnt run subs that had a really deep cone, so i dont see how the depth of the cone would make a sub any louder really

who said it would?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

sigh

 

[mrogowski 5,000+ posts]

Well, Audioholic does spell it out to its most basic form //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Forgive me, I am not an engineer so the term 'swirl' and other explanations I may describe can be somewhat rudimentary. But if you look at the angle of the cone, that is the angle air will be thrust at. Factor in cone geometry, imperfections, flexing, and other artifacts and imperfections of the cone and you end up with cancellations, phase variations - defined by frequency..

 

[bball09124 10+ year member]

Again, save the sarcasm for when you are right.

Putting aside my lousy paint skills and assuming same diameter and same excursion in my picture, which of those two represents more volume?

Spencer, analyze this image. Attempt to figure out why he posted this, and stop spewing what you think is fact but is truly not.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

Well, Audioholic does spell it out to its most basic form //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
Forgive me, I am not an engineer so the term 'swirl' and other explanations I may describe can be somewhat rudimentary. But if you look at the angle of the cone, that is the angle air will be thrust at. Factor in cone geometry, imperfections, flexing, and other artifacts and imperfections of the cone and you end up with cancellations, phase variations, frequency, etc.

and in that sense the flatter you could get the cone the better to produce a more perpendicular movement of air to the driver itself? would also explain why dome drivers (only talking midrange now) have greater off axis response and dispersion than cone midranges, because technically there should be no cancellation if this is true...right?

anyways, im done arguing, doesnt really matter, manufacures dont have alot of choices for shape or depth regardless, rigidness, cancelation, driver mounting depth, too many factors to change what works so the volume displacement is not really important because there aren't too many flat drivers to compare to anyways.

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

Spencer, analyze this image. Attempt to figure out why he posted this, and stop spewing what you think is fact but is truly not.

how about you put those images with real world practical limitations as far as linear movement is concerned, take a look at my math and come back and see me when you pass 8th grade geometry

 

[mrogowski 5,000+ posts]

and in that sense the flatter you could get the cone the better to produce a more perpendicular movement of air to the driver itself? would also explain why dome drivers (only talking midrange now) have greater off axis response and dispersion than cone midranges, because technically there should be no cancellation if this is true...right?
anyways, im done arguing, doesnt really matter, manufacures dont have alot of choices for shape or depth regardless, rigidness, cancelation, driver mounting depth, too many factors to change what works so the volume displacement is not really important because there aren't too many flat drivers to compare to anyways.

Yeah, for the most part. I just attended a seminar put on by Klippel, and he went into this sort of stuff quite thoroughly. Still trying to absorb things and the eight beers I've had aren't helping //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

He did show the response of a flat cone driver (in comparisons with other normal units) and there was one heck of a cancellation - perhaps check out Klippel's web site, he may have posting info on this phenomena..

 

[Haunz 10+ year member]

thank you an intelligent response, im not saying that just because its cone it has more output, but the original content was about surface area and i was simply correctly the theory that Pi*r^2 is correct for a cone. then a couple people decided to tell me that the air moved is not affected by the depth of the cone when we are talking about volume, volume is simply whatever something displaces in its path and a cone (because it has more surface area than a circle of equal diameter) displaces more in its short path than a flat circle does, so depth DOES matter as far as STRICTLY volume is concerned, now i don't have a audio or a fluid or thermal dynamics major, im a mechanical engineering technician, but i did have to pass basic geometry for that.

You sir, are a f uck tard.... that is to say you are retarded in concept and are also f ucking up with your arrogence... you claim to be a mechanical engineering technician yet you fail to grasp a concept that a 6th grader should understand ???

Displacement is equal to area multiplied by travel... not surface area by travel... I'm sure getting past this hickup will suit you well in your engineering endevours... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[spencer321 10+ year member]

here did a little edit for you to make it more realistic so you can all tell the difference

like i said, if the excursion is greater than the depth of the cone then your right my argument is irrelevent... but how many drivers do you know that do this?

you may have more install or overall driver experience then me, but don't argue with me about the math behind it.

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

your such a moron, if your going to pose a valid argument pose the RIGHT ONE you idiot
if the cones linear movement is greater than that of the depth of the cone, it becomes irrelevent, but how many subs do you know that move more in their linear movement than the depth of the cone itself

and again i would loose the aura of all knowing if you don't understand basic geometry, probably not even then

lmfao...

that was actually the point I was going to make (the same as audioholic) but for some reason I couldn't think of how to word it, or demonstrate it, which he just did.

and no shit they make dome speakers...because it has a different SOUND, not because its louder...