Clipping(?) with two 12" Pioneer subs


issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
Let me first point out that I'm not entirely sure if this is even clipping, I sent in a support ticket to Pioneer and that's what they said it was.

So I got two new 12" Pioneer Champion Pro (TSW3003D4) (that are rated at 600w RMS, 2000w Peak) hooked up to an RE Audio DTS1000.1 with 2 gauge wire. I have the gain set to (what I assume is) 750w-800w at 1ohm in a box that's 1.23cuft each chamber.

When I play a song with real low bass (for example, this song


), I get a strange knocking/popping noise coming from the subs. This is my first time encountering this issue, and the Pioneer employee said that it's "clipping".
I originally had the subs in a bigger box (1.5cuft each), so I assumed that since the subs are optimal at 1.25cuft, I should get a box that matched the specs. I still get the issue.

The Pioneer employee said that it's most likely the amp not outputting enough power. But from my understanding, that should not be an issue since I don't have the gain maxed out. The amp's RMS at 1 ohm is 800w, and even at 600-700w I was getting clipping. So if the subs were drawing more than my gain was set to, there was still plenty of headroom for it. But I don't know enough about this to argue, so if this is true or not, please let me know.

I've found countless amounts of videos on these subs, people running them at 1000w, 1200w, and getting no issues from them at all. Is there a chance my subs are defective, is there something I'm missing?

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
253
South Coast Metro, CA
Let me first point out that I'm not entirely sure if this is even clipping, I sent in a support ticket to Pioneer and that's what they said it was.
So I got two new 12" Pioneer Champion Pro (TSW3003D4) (that are rated at 600w RMS, 2000w Peak) hooked up to an RE Audio DTS1000.1 with 2 gauge wire. I have the gain set to (what I assume is) 750w-800w at 1ohm in a box that's 1.23cuft each chamber.

When I play a song with real low bass (for example, this song



), I get a strange knocking/popping noise coming from the subs. This is my first time encountering this issue, and the Pioneer employee said that it's "clipping".
I originally had the subs in a bigger box (1.5cuft each), so I assumed that since the subs are optimal at 1.25cuft, I should get a box that matched the specs. I still get the issue.

The Pioneer employee said that it's most likely the amp not outputting enough power. But from my understanding, that should not be an issue since I don't have the gain maxed out. The amp's RMS at 1 ohm is 800w, and even at 600-700w I was getting clipping. So if the subs were drawing more than my gain was set to, there was still plenty of headroom for it. But I don't know enough about this to argue, so if this is true or not, please let me know.

I've found countless amounts of videos on these subs, people running them at 1000w, 1200w, and getting no issues from them at all. Is there a chance my subs are defective, is there something I'm missing?
Yup you are expecting way too much out of them. What you think is X amount of power could very well be already past clipping especially playing bass enhanced music which can EASILY drive you past clipping. The gain knob at 70% doesnt mean 700 watts.... Also That amp is not an amp that makes rated power. I've owned one, its bleh at best.

You can take the sub out and free air test to see if its actually the sub or the box thats making the noise but i'm completely certain you are overdriving the amp and sub especially with that song you've listed which has clipped basslines inherently in the recording.

 
OP
I

issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
How are you setting the gain?
I set the gain to 0, turn the radio up to what I usually play music at (32/62) and set the gain from there. I keep the gain set between the 1/2 and 3/4.

 
OP
I

issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
Sounds like your bottoming out or rocking the coil
My dad told me that I could be bottoming out because of the box size, and when we swapped to the smaller box he said it's probably rocking the coil. In that case, is there anything I can do besides turn the gain down?

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
253
South Coast Metro, CA
I set the gain to 0, turn the radio up to what I usually play music at (32/62) and set the gain from there. I keep the gain set between the 1/2 and 3/4.
thats the problem, the radio bass levels are different from bass enhanced music bass levels, you completely clipped the sh*t out of the setup if you did that.

 
OP
I

issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
The gain knob at 70% doesnt mean 700 watts.... That amp is not an amp that makes rated power.
Why is that? The amp is rated at 1000w peak, so 70% of that should be 700w. How far off of is the amp from rated power?

I understand that it could also just be the song, especially since it's from an amateur producer.

i'm completely certain you are overdriving the amp and sub
I still dont understand how I'm over driving the subs. If the amp is outputting 700w and the subs can handle 1200w, how are the subs being over powered?

 
OP
I

issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
thats the problem, the radio bass levels are different from bass enhanced music bass levels, you completely clipped the sh*t out of the setup if you did that.
Fair enough. How would I properly set the gain?

 

Jeffdachef

Gunz That Turn on Nunz
Feb 5, 2013
17,262
253
South Coast Metro, CA
Why is that? The amp is rated at 1000w peak, so 70% of that should be 700w. How far off of is the amp from rated power?
I understand that it could also just be the song, especially since it's from an amateur producer.

I still dont understand how I'm over driving the subs. If the amp is outputting 700w and the subs can handle 1200w, how are the subs being over powered?
The gain is not on a scale of 1-100% its there just to match the pre-out voltage coming from the head unit. so if you head unit is 4 volts, you only need to go up to a certain point on the gain knob and you are already at 100%. In my buddy's setup which a sony head unit which is a 5 volt pre-out, gain was at 1/6, less than 20% and we already got max clean output from the amp. Anymore was complete clipping. The head unit volume level, sub level, loudness, bass EQ and bass boost all affect the pre-out signal strength. The other thing that affects pre-out signal strength is the bass in the recording. rock and pop music has a lot weaker bass levels vs hip hop and hip hop is a lot weaker than bass enhanced music. If you set the gains for normal music to get full output out of the amp then suddenly play bass enhanced stuff, you completely dirtied and distorted the signal. Basically telling a 120lb guy to deadlift 500lbs. He'll do it and get injured doing so.

Fair enough. How would I properly set the gain?
bass boost, loudness and bass EQ all off or at 0 on the head unit. No bass boost on the amp. Head unit right around 75% of max volume. Sub level at 0. Play your bass enhanced music and set the gains for that. When it stops getting louder, that means you've maxed out, back it off a bit.

Now when you play weaker bass music, you can raise the sub level on the head unit accordingly. Just remember to lower it when you play heavier bass music.

 
OP
I

issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
Yeah 70% gain doesn't mean 700 watts. 25% could be 1000 watts depending on preout voltage
Do you know your preout voltage coming out of the headunit?
Sorry, but I don't know it. I have the Pioneer FHX-700BT, doing some research on it now.

 
OP
I

issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
The gain is not on a scale of 1-100% its there just to match the pre-out voltage coming from the head unit. so if you head unit is 4 volts, you only need to go up to a certain point on the gain knob and you are already at 100%. In my buddy's setup which a sony head unit which is a 5 volt pre-out, gain was at 1/6, less than 20% and we already got max clean output from the amp. Anymore was complete clipping. The head unit volume level, sub level, loudness, bass EQ and bass boost all affect the pre-out signal strength. The other thing that affects pre-out signal strength is the bass in the recording. rock and pop music has a lot weaker bass levels vs hip hop and hip hop is a lot weaker than bass enhanced music. If you set the gains for normal music to get full output out of the amp then suddenly play bass enhanced stuff, you completely dirtied and distorted the signal. Basically telling a 120lb guy to deadlift 500lbs. He'll do it and get injured doing so.


bass boost, loudness and bass EQ all off or at 0 on the head unit. No bass boost on the amp. Head unit right around 75% of max volume. Sub level at 0. Play your bass enhanced music and set the gains for that. When it stops getting louder, that means you've maxed out, back it off a bit.

Now when you play weaker bass music, you can raise the sub level on the head unit accordingly. Just remember to lower it when you play heavier bass music.
Thanks man, I appreciate the info. I'll get everything setup properly soon.

 
OP
I

issvor

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2016
8
0
Texas
I found out my headunit's pre-amp voltage is 2 volts. I'm not sure what to do with that info

 

CDE219

Junior Member
Oct 11, 2016
12
0
BC, Canada
I set my amp gain the other day by calculating the rms watts of the amp multiply by the ohms you are running at, find the square route of that then with subs disconected and volume at 75% played a 50hz bass note, put the meter across the terminals and turn the gain untill you get your reading of your calculation, mine was 42.42 on a 1800w rms amp gain was set just above half way when it read correct, and it made a hell of a difference as aposed to doin it by ear.....hope this helps you....

 

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