Capacitors and SQ?

[Crimson Boom 10+ year member]

Caps are frowned upon on here generally. I'm not an SQ person but its interesting to me for whatever reason so I've been looking around at SQ builds(on DIYMA, and just looking around on other boards) and I have seen that many have caps and that in SQ comps they are needed and if you dont have one they deduct from your score. Can anyone shed some light on this? PS, I AM NOT thinking about using a cap, its just something thats been bugging me

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[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

You pretty much covered the reason.

Most people who compete install them because they can get some extra points (or not be deducted points).....atleast that's how it use to be. Don't know if that's still built into the rules.

 

[Crimson Boom 10+ year member]

why is that a rule though?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

My guess would be a major sponsor of IASCA/etc sold capacitors, so it was a way to boost sales by forcing competitors to use them.

 

[edzy 10+ year member]

caps smooth out voltage spikes and ripples, making for a more consistante amp voltage. This helps eliminate the soft and hard spots in SQ set ups. They are not used to "add Bass" as most ppl think, but to help with a constant voltage.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

caps smooth out voltage spikes and ripples, making for a more consistante amp voltage. This helps eliminate the soft and hard spots in SQ set ups. They are not used to "add Bass" as most ppl think, but to help with a constant voltage.

You have fallen for a common marketing ploy from companies who sell capacitors. Modern amplifiers already have an array of capacitors built into their input stage to stabilize voltage. Amplifier designers are actually pretty smart people. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

You have fallen for a common marketing ploy from companies who sell capacitors. Modern amplifiers already have an array of capacitors built into their input stage to stabilize voltage. Amplifier designers are actually pretty smart people.

With the ability for a larger amp to drain a car's electrical system, are ALL amps built to compensate for any voltage variation?

It definately can't hurt to add a cap, but maybe the issue you are looking to "solve" with one?

I'm not an expert. And I am not looking to argue //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Just want to learn.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

With the ability for a larger amp to drain a car's electrical system, are ALL amps built to compensate for any voltage variation?It definately can't hurt to add a cap, but maybe the issue you are looking to "solve" with one?

I'm not an expert. And I am not looking to argue //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Just want to learn.

Larger amplifiers tend to have larger arrays of caps in them, if that is what you are asking. And, of course, higher quality amplifiers tend to have more capacitance in them (among other things). But as you suggested, if you have a significant voltage variation, a external cap wont solve the problem either. That is why caps are known as a band-aide cure, they try to solve the symptom, not the problem.
In other words, when you start talking about significant voltage drops, you are describing a situation where a cap will be used in a manner where it is expected to be a power source, not a filter. There in lies the problem.

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

Larger amplifiers tend to have larger arrays of caps in them, if that is what you are asking. And, of course, higher quality amplifiers tend to have more capacitance in them (among other things). But as you suggested, if you have a significant voltage variation, a external cap wont solve the problem either. That is why caps are known as a band-aide cure, they try to solve the symptom, not the problem.
In other words, when you start talking about significant voltage drops, you are describing a situation where a cap will be used in a manner where it is expected to be a power source, not a filter. There in lies the problem.

Right, like when upgrading to a second batt/doing big 3 is what you should have done?

Covers up the problem, doesn't solve it.

So in what situation would a cap be applicable. I know most would say "None, they are worthless" but there has to be a instance where they can/should be added. Or else their marketing is paying off //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I have no voltage problems, but at the same time I am running a very low powered system.

But I have a friend who would give me one, would it hurt or help to throw it in there?

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Right, like when upgrading to a second batt/doing big 3 is what you should have done?Covers up the problem, doesn't solve it.

So in what situation would a cap be applicable. I know most would say "None, they are worthless" but there has to be a instance where they can/should be added. Or else their marketing is paying off //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I have no voltage problems, but at the same time I am running a very low powered system.

But I have a friend who would give me one, would it hurt or help to throw it in there?

They can hurt. They can help. They may do squat. Hope that helps! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
But seriously, I always recommend upgrading your charging system in this order: big 3, battery, alternator, add cap... and I note to stop upgrading when the charging system is sufficient. And since the first three steps cover all the possible problems, there is almost never a real need for an external cap. Unless 1) you need it to compete, for points, I guess... 2) its free, or 3) there is no 3. You fit the free category, so try it and see what happens.

I also like adding a rear battery to relieve stress on the charging system. But that's a topic for another day. Just wanted to add that is another possible solution/option sometimes as well, even for modest systems.

Thankyou for your nice comment endofdays.

 

[GAM3OVR 5,000+ posts]

Right, like when upgrading to a second batt/doing big 3 is what you should have done?Covers up the problem, doesn't solve it.

So in what situation would a cap be applicable. I know most would say "None, they are worthless" but there has to be a instance where they can/should be added. Or else their marketing is paying off //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I have no voltage problems, but at the same time I am running a very low powered system.

But I have a friend who would give me one, would it hurt or help to throw it in there?

When I meet a new friend named capacitor

I introduce him to my other friend; napalm //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[funkycasey 10+ year member]

Well, Capacitors add a noticeable amount of resistance, so you are basically losing the total maximum amount of power that your car can supply when you add one...I know batteries also have some amount of resistance as well, but it is very minute when compared to the resistance of most capacitors out there.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

When I meet a new friend named capacitor
I introduce him to my other friend; napalm //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I like to smear peanut butter all over both posts of a fully charged cap, and then call the neighbor's dog over.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/angel.gif.fa7795fff6653f4381ba158c55a48b74.gif

 

[GAM3OVR 5,000+ posts]

I like to smear peanut butter all over both posts of a fully charged cap, and then call the neighbor's dog over.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/angel.gif.fa7795fff6653f4381ba158c55a48b74.gif

Well sir, if you are ever in the colorado/ denver provice, I bring the beers/ explosives/ peanut butter, you bring the caps

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well, Capacitors add a noticeable amount of resistance, so you are basically losing the total maximum amount of power that your car can supply when you add one...I know batteries also have some amount of resistance as well, but it is very minute when compared to the resistance of most capacitors out there.

It depends on the type of capacitor, and if it has crap on it like voltage displays and LEDs. But many times you are exactly right, they can do more harm than good, to any system.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Well sir, if you are ever in the colorado/ denver provice, I bring the beers/ explosives/ peanut butter, you bring the caps

Yeah but who brings the dogs?

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

Well, Capacitors add a noticeable amount of resistance, so you are basically losing the total maximum amount of power that your car can supply when you add one...I know batteries also have some amount of resistance as well, but it is very minute when compared to the resistance of most capacitors out there.

Where is the resistance? wouldn't that be cancelled out by the idea that they "supply" faster amounts of power for quick bursts? (I know that is THE marketing scheme but...)

I'm so confused //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

If they add more resistance, wouldn't that mean that you would have a voltage drop from the voltage at the battery and the voltage at the amp?

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

The cap has internal resistance that leeches voltage whenever the cap charges or discharges. This is lost power and basically an added inefficiency to your charging system. If it weren't for this loss, large caps might actually be of benefit, but because of it they are pretty much worthless.

The original caps installed in a car were there to stabilize the voltage, but not from transient demands. They were there to filter out the voltage ripple from the alternator. The marketing department at Monster Cable took the actual purpose, amplified the cap's potential and sold them as stiffening capacitors. The engineers had nothing to do with improving the contribution of the caps and they weren't really improved except by perception based on effective marketing.

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

I was told that when you use a cap it makes your alternator work harder to keep up the charge in the Bat. That came from a place called custom car sound in glendale AZ. I was told that it would be a safer bet to upgrade the bat, power cable, big 3, second bat, then new alternator.

As of now I have none. just basic set up. yup, I get major dimming. Running 3 amps, rms total is 1900watts. I can seem to find an alternator to fit a 2003 cavilier.2.2L. mine is 105 amps. guess I need more? Pm me some ideas. should I put the cap on?