Can you please offer some advice on what parts I will need to clean up my install?

[bdonkersgoed 10+ year member]

Hey Guys,

I am getting my car stereo "reinstalled" on Tuesday because the last shop made a mess of it by doing a "speedwire" install among other things. I want to pay the money and get the job done right. I am buying some of the parts myself (interconnects, speaker wire, distribution blocks, etc.) and then having Mobile Concept in Chicago do the installation (who impressed me when I walked into their shop the other day). I was just wondering about your opinion on a few of the parts I am considering.

First off, here is the gear I already have:

HEAD UNIT:

- Alpine CDA9835 CD/MP3

FRONT STAGE:

- Focal Utopia 165W Components

- PPI Ax400 (to biamplify the Focals) (4 channels at 50W per channel)

REAR STAGE:

- RE-XXX 6.5" Midbasses

- US Amp 400x

SUB:

- Image Dynamics IDQ12 Dual 2-ohm hooked in parallel

- Orion HCCA 225 G4 (will see a 1-ohm load and put out 400W)

SOUND DEADENING:

- Brown Bread is dampening all doors, but I am not sure how well the other shop did this. It is probably sloppy and needs to be redone //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

Here are some of the parts I am considering for an installation in a 1999 VW Passat:

- (3) Stinger Bullet SBT17 Interconnects

- (36 ft) Stinger High Performance (HPM) Twisted speaker wire in Blue

- (36 ft) Stinger High Performance (HPM) Twisted speaker wire in Purple

- (1) Stinger SF4 Crossflow fan for the Orion Amp

Some Questions:

1.) Do you think that the Crossflow fan for the Orion HCCA will be necessary, or is it overkill? Although the amp is stable at 0.5 ohms, I know that it does run pretty hot at 1-ohm. If the fan is a good idea, which model of fan best suits my purpose?

2.) How many power distribution blocks am I going to need in this setup? I know that the US Amps 400x is a little different in that it needs two positive and two negative 8 ga power wires.

3.) Is there a particular distribution block that you would recommend? I already have the 4 ga power wire running to the trunk.

4.) Without getting a new alternator, is there a way to prevent the car's lights from dimming? Is this what a capacitor is for, or is that more of a marketing gimmick?

Thanks!

Bryan

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[draarong2004 10+ year member]

Hey Guys,
I am getting my car stereo "reinstalled" on Tuesday because the last shop made a mess of it by doing a "speedwire" install among other things. I want to pay the money and get the job done right. I am buying some of the parts myself (interconnects, speaker wire, distribution blocks, etc.) and then having Mobile Concept in Chicago do the installation (who impressed me when I walked into their shop the other day). I was just wondering about your opinion on a few of the parts I am considering.

First off, here is the gear I already have:

HEAD UNIT:

- Alpine CDA9835 CD/MP3

FRONT STAGE:

- Focal Utopia 165W Components

- PPI Ax400 (to biamplify the Focals) (4 channels at 50W per channel)

REAR STAGE:

- RE-XXX 6.5" Midbasses

- US Amp 400x

SUB:

- Image Dynamics IDQ12 Dual 2-ohm hooked in parallel

- Orion HCCA 225 G4 (will see a 1-ohm load and put out 400W)

SOUND DEADENING:

- Brown Bread is dampening all doors, but I am not sure how well the other shop did this. It is probably sloppy and needs to be redone //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

Here are some of the parts I am considering for an installation in a 1999 VW Passat:

- (3) Stinger Bullet SBT17 Interconnects

- (36 ft) Stinger High Performance (HPM) Twisted speaker wire in Blue

- (36 ft) Stinger High Performance (HPM) Twisted speaker wire in Purple

- (1) Stinger SF4 Crossflow fan for the Orion Amp

Some Questions:

1.) Do you think that the Crossflow fan for the Orion HCCA will be necessary, or is it overkill? Although the amp is stable at 0.5 ohms, I know that it does run pretty hot at 1-ohm. If the fan is a good idea, which model of fan best suits my purpose?

2.) How many power distribution blocks am I going to need in this setup? I know that the US Amps 400x is a little different in that it needs two positive and two negative 8 ga power wires.

3.) Is there a particular distribution block that you would recommend? I already have the 4 ga power wire running to the trunk.

Thanks!

Bryan

really in your instance, a T block would be fine, that is, if you have 2 fuse holders one for each amp in the back, along with a fuse holder up front, otherwise a fused distro block is the way for you to go, wire loom is another thing you should consider, but also reconsider your wiring options and the pricing they are selling them to you for to install, unless your buying otherwise, shop around and see what the lowest prices really are on the stuff, alot of times you'll end up getting as much as a 40% "dealer mark up" on most equipment....other than that, the fan is a decent idea, also consider placement of the amp.

 

[bdonkersgoed 10+ year member]

Do you have a link to a T-Block? I have never heard of that before . . . By the way, I am using three amps, not two:

AMPS:

- PPI Ax400

- US Amps 400x

- Orion HCCA 225 G4

Thanks!

Bryan

 

[bdonkersgoed 10+ year member]

By the way, how does a distribution block work? Do you buy one block to split the positive power wire, and one block to split the negative power wire?

Thanks,

Bryan

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-3448

That will take care of you power power distro and fusing. 4ga in, 4x8ga out.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-1448

That will take care of your ground. 4x8ga in and 4ga out.

Read the sticky at the op of this forum concerning the "big 3" and make sure that is taken care of. If you're still having dimming problems, you might consider a second battery. You're not running a lot of power, so taking care of the "big 3" should help the dimming problem a lot.

 

[bdonkersgoed 10+ year member]

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-3448
That will take care of you power power distro and fusing. 4ga in, 4x8ga out.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BC-1448

That will take care of your ground. 4x8ga in and 4ga out.

Read the sticky at the op of this forum concerning the "big 3" and make sure that is taken care of. If you're still having dimming problems, you might consider a second battery. You're not running a lot of power, so taking care of the "big 3" should help the dimming problem a lot.

Thanks,

I will look into the "Big 3" upgrade. The dimming is likely due to the Orion HCCA 225 G4, which is an old-school competition amp that likely draws a lot of power. The lights are dimming with the PPI Ax400 and Orion amp hooked up, and I am worried that it will be even worse once I add the US Amps 400X.

I actually placed an order for two distribution blocks this morning, because I had to place the order so that it would be shipped in time for my installation appointment. I hope I bought the correct ones! I bought two of the SDB3PT's which can be seen at the following link:

http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/distribution.asp

The description is: "The new SDB3PT borrows its great looks from the popular SPGDPT. Offering a 1/0 or 4ga input and two 4ga and three 8ga outputs. Great blue and chrome styling!"

I currently have a 4 ga Power and a 4 ga ground wire in the trunk. I was going to use one block to split the postive, and one block to split the negative. I thought this was perfect because then I would have the following:

- (2) 4 ga positive wires to go to the PPI Ax400 and Orion HCCA 225 G4

- (2) 4 ga negative wires to go to the PPI Ax400 and Orion HCCA 225 G4

- (2) 8 ga positive wires to go to the US Amps 400X

- (2) 8 ga negative wires to go to the US Amps 400X

Is my reasoning correct? Note that the US Amps required two 8 ga power and two 8 ga negative connections.

Thanks!

Bryan

 

[draarong2004 10+ year member]

Thanks,
I will look into the "Big 3" upgrade. The dimming is likely due to the Orion HCCA 225 G4, which is an old-school competition amp that likely draws a lot of power. The lights are dimming with the PPI Ax400 and Orion amp hooked up, and I am worried that it will be even worse once I add the US Amps 400X.

I actually placed an order for two distribution blocks this morning, because I had to place the order so that it would be shipped in time for my installation appointment. I hope I bought the correct ones! I bought two of the SDB3PT's which can be seen at the following link:

http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/distribution.asp

The description is: "The new SDB3PT borrows its great looks from the popular SPGDPT. Offering a 1/0 or 4ga input and two 4ga and three 8ga outputs. Great blue and chrome styling!"

I currently have a 4 ga Power and a 4 ga ground wire in the trunk. I was going to use one block to split the postive, and one block to split the negative. I thought this was perfect because then I would have the following:

- (2) 4 ga positive wires to go to the PPI Ax400 and Orion HCCA 225 G4

- (2) 4 ga negative wires to go to the PPI Ax400 and Orion HCCA 225 G4

- (2) 8 ga positive wires to go to the US Amps 400X

- (2) 8 ga negative wires to go to the US Amps 400X

Is my reasoning correct? Note that the US Amps required two 8 ga power and two 8 ga negative connections.

Thanks!

Bryan

with your setup, you are honestly better with a fused distro block as mentioned above, a fuse is really ment to just protect the wire, but it can also help protect the amp from an "overload"

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

The Orion (own 3 225s a 250 and a 2100, personally) and the PPI have built in fuses. Since you have a 4ga coming from the battery and it is fused appropriately, you don't have to worry about fusing the 4ga coming from the distro. However, you do need to fuse the 8ga because you are stepping down the wire size. Something like 2 of the SBF1MAX MAXI fuse holders would work well since you have already ordered the distro blocks.

Also, as I said I own several of the 225s and I am well aware of the ammount of current that they can draw (try feeding a 250HCCA bridged to 1 ohm or a 2100 bridged to 2!). That amp doesn't actually draw that much current. I would be more suspect of the 400X, actually. Either way I honestly think that you should either upgrade to 1/0 from the front of the car or (since you already have distro blocks on order that can support it) add a second run of 4ga from the front of the car. I would also suggest running your ground back to the battery. Dimming is caused by a voltage drop resulting from exceeding the current capacity of the alternator. Power loss from using too small a power wire or having inadequate grounds will cause the amp to draw even more current than normal in an attempt to keep its power supply rail voltage at its normal level. This excessive current can easily exceed the capacity of the alternator, especially with the headlights and other high drain items turned on. Upgrading the "big 3" and making sure that you minimize losses in the power and ground runs are the first step in minimizing and/or eliminating dimming.

 

[DC8 Flyer 10+ year member]

Helo

Is it necessary to put a fuse on 8ga wires coming out of a distro block that is fed by a 4ga wire?

I am running two of these http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/1557782/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046

one for power, one for ground. All of the amps have built in fuses, but I understand the fuse inline is more to protect the wire than the amp.

 

[wesl56 10+ year member]

Helo
Is it necessary to put a fuse on 8ga wires coming out of a distro block that is fed by a 4ga wire?

I am running two of these http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/1557782/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046

one for power, one for ground. All of the amps have built in fuses, but I understand the fuse inline is more to protect the wire than the amp.

yes... not to protect the amp but to protect that smaller wire, since its rated less than the big fuse that is on the 4 gauge wire

 

[DC8 Flyer 10+ year member]

yes... not to protect the amp but to protect that smaller wire, since its rated less than the big fuse that is on the 4 gauge wire

Ok, makes sense, but each amp is only a 30 amp fuse, so I was planning on putting a 90 amp fuse on the 4ga off the batt. I think an 8ga wire can take a 90 amp load, so if there was some kind of run away, the 90 amp would blow before hurting the 8ga wire?? Also, the 30 amp fuse on the amp would blow at 30+ amps, and 8ga can handle 30 amps. Or am I on the wrong track?

 

[wesl56 10+ year member]

Ok, makes sense, but each amp is only a 30 amp fuse, so I was planning on putting a 90 amp fuse on the 4ga off the batt. I think an 8ga wire can take a 90 amp load, so if there was some kind of run away, the 90 amp would blow before hurting the 8ga wire?? Also, the 30 amp fuse on the amp would blow at 30+ amps, and 8ga can handle 30 amps. Or am I on the wrong track?

you could most likely get away with that... esp if the 8ga runs arent very long

but if u wanted to be super safe, fusing each would be the way

 

[DC8 Flyer 10+ year member]

you could most likely get away with that... esp if the 8ga runs arent very long
but if u wanted to be super safe, fusing each would be the way

The longest 8ga run is about 18 inches, if that. Just for FYI, what would cause an overload on the 8ga wire, that would cause damage or fire before the fuse on the amp would blow?

 

[bdonkersgoed 10+ year member]

The Orion (own 3 225s a 250 and a 2100, personally) and the PPI have built in fuses. Since you have a 4ga coming from the battery and it is fused appropriately, you don't have to worry about fusing the 4ga coming from the distro. However, you do need to fuse the 8ga because you are stepping down the wire size. Something like 2 of the SBF1MAX MAXI fuse holders would work well since you have already ordered the distro blocks.
Also, as I said I own several of the 225s and I am well aware of the ammount of current that they can draw (try feeding a 250HCCA bridged to 1 ohm or a 2100 bridged to 2!). That amp doesn't actually draw that much current. I would be more suspect of the 400X, actually. Either way I honestly think that you should either upgrade to 1/0 from the front of the car or (since you already have distro blocks on order that can support it) add a second run of 4ga from the front of the car. I would also suggest running your ground back to the battery. Dimming is caused by a voltage drop resulting from exceeding the current capacity of the alternator. Power loss from using too small a power wire or having inadequate grounds will cause the amp to draw even more current than normal in an attempt to keep its power supply rail voltage at its normal level. This excessive current can easily exceed the capacity of the alternator, especially with the headlights and other high drain items turned on. Upgrading the "big 3" and making sure that you minimize losses in the power and ground runs are the first step in minimizing and/or eliminating dimming.

Thanks for your excellent write-up! That makes it really easy for someone like me to understand!

I was reading up on the "Big 3" upgrade, and maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. How much should an upgrade such as this cost? I have a 1999 Volkswagen Passat 1.8T.

I thought that my 4ga power wire should be sufficient, juding by the "wiring" thread stickied in this forum. I will ask the installer about this though, so thanks for the suggestion.

I don't think my ground runs to the battery as you describe. I think it is just bolted to the car in the trunk. What is the advantage of grounding to the battery?

I didn't even realize that the distribution blocks that I bought weren't fused. I can always buy the fuses from the installer though, so that isn't a big deal. It is good to hear that the distribution blocks I bought will do the trick in my application though.

Thanks again!

Bryan

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I was reading up on the "Big 3" upgrade, and maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea. How much should an upgrade such as this cost? I have a 1999 Volkswagen Passat 1.8T.

If you were to do it in 1/0, I would guess in the ballpark of $150 to have the shop do it. A little less if you already have the wire.

I don't think my ground runs to the battery as you describe. I think it is just bolted to the car in the trunk. What is the advantage of grounding to the battery?

The advantage of grounding back to the battery is that you are dealing with a known quantity. You know that your ground is of minimum resistance and is not causing excessive voltage drop and powre loss. There are a bunch of threads in here about it. I've provided some pretty lengthy explanations in most of them.