Can Speakers blow an amp??

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I guess I'm confused then. I bought this amp because I thought it would suit my needs based on the ohm loads it said it supports. So if I'm understanding you guys correctly you're saying that even though the amp is stable at 2 ohms stereo and I'm feeding it a 2 ohm stereo load that it's too much? I'm not bridging the amp channels together if that's what you guys are thinking. I always thought that if I did 4ohm + 4ohm then I would get 2 ohm and as long as that was a recommended load I would be fine.

for example a 2 ohm 1 channel amp is not rated to power two 2 ohm speakers connected to it.
even though each speaker is 2 ohms the total resistance the amp sees will not be 2 ohms
Under this scenario the amp would see the subs as bridged and would see a 1 ohm load which it does not support, however, if the 2 speakers were 4 ohms and connected to the amp it would see a 2 ohm load and function as designed.

 
The amp isn't bridged, the speakers are connected in parallel. And, it doesn't matter if you connect 40 speakers to an amplifier so long as they are wired to an impedance that the amp can handle. From what OP has explained, I see no problems with how he has the speakers wired or how they are connected to the amplifier.

The problem, I would bet, is that the gains aren't set properly. And in answer to your question... yes, a speaker can cause damage to an amplifier, if the speaker(s) presents a load that is too low for the amplifier.

If in the specs, this amplifier can handle 2Ω loads on the stereo channels and a 1Ω load on the subwoofer channel, then you have no problem there... assuming your subwoofers haven't been dual 1Ω subs wired in parallel.

Questions:

How did you set your gains?

What are your crossover and infrasonic filters set at on the subwoofer channel?

Is there a bass boost adjustment and are you using it? If so, where is it set?

Do you know what volume level the head unit clips at and did you respect that level when setting gains?

 
The amp isn't bridged, the speakers are connected in parallel. And, it doesn't matter if you connect 40 speakers to an amplifier so long as they are wired to an impedance that the amp can handle. From what OP has explained, I see no problems with how he has the speakers wired or how they are connected to the amplifier.

The problem, I would bet, is that the gains aren't set properly. And in answer to your question... yes, a speaker can cause damage to an amplifier, if the speaker(s) presents a load that is too low for the amplifier.

If in the specs, this amplifier can handle 2Ω loads on the stereo channels and a 1Ω load on the subwoofer channel, then you have no problem there... assuming your subwoofers haven't been dual 1Ω subs wired in parallel.

Questions:

How did you set your gains?

What are your crossover and infrasonic filters set at on the subwoofer channel?

Is there a bass boost adjustment and are you using it? If so, where is it set?

Do you know what volume level the head unit clips at and did you respect that level when setting gains?
So far each time I've only wired up a single 2ohm DVC 12" sub to the amp. It's never seen anything lower than that. This last time as far as my gain set up goes I set my volume at my normal level and set the gains based on the EQ level display on the amp. Nothing peaked consistently and I didn't hear any distortion. I believe no gain was set at more than half. The sub channel was set low because the amp was really pushing the sub, even with the gain turned down to about 25%. It sounded great with those settings, so I left it alone. The next day on my way in to work it sounded fine. When I left work I turned it up louder than the volume I used to set up the gains and thats when it cut off and the sub was left smoking.

I didn't see a bass boost on the amp. It has a remote module that has that setting, but I currently have that disconnected. Cross over for he sub was set for about 130hz and under. I didn't use the sub sonic because I thought that was only for ported boxed and it's in a sealed enclosure. I don't know what level the deck clips at, but it wasn't turned up all of the way. The max is 35 I believe and I had it at 27. My current deck is a Kenwood Excelon DNX-9990HD.

 
I don't know what "normal level" is but if it's, say, half way (15 of 35, for example) on a 4 volt out preamp and you set the gain for a 2 volt preamp signal, then every time you turn the volume past half way up... you cause the amp to clip the signal. To better explain that, I'll assume you set gains at volume level 15 and we'll assume that the preamp voltage at that setting is 2 volts. Now, with that setting, you've set your amp to produce its maximum power with a 2 volt signal and any time the preamp voltage exceeds 2 volts (any time the volume goes up past 15), the amplifier is being asked to amplify the waveform more than it actually can. And since amps are dumb in that they don't know what their maximum is, it will happily comply with that request and the result will be a waveform with the peaks cut off. When that happens, even though the sound you hear may not be particularly loud and possibly not even audibly distorted... heat builds up in the speaker's motor. This is because the amp is pushing the cone out (& pulling it in) and then attempting to stop it and hold it for a few milli (or nano) seconds twice for every cycle. So for a 30 hz note, that's 60 times per second that the amp is essentially sending DC voltage through the coil and when that's happening, the motor is not able to dissipate the heat that builds up. And again, all of this can occur even if you aren't driving the sub hard and even if you can't hear audible distortion.

This is why you read or hear people like me saying that where the gain knob is set makes no difference at all with respect to it being set properly. i.e., you can't think of it like a volume control knob and assume that just because it's only set to 25% that it's somehow only turned up 25%. That's simply not true.

As an example, the gain control on the 400 watt amp that runs my door speakers is almost in the "off" position (if it were a volume control). This is because my processor has 4 volt preamp outputs and the amp only accepts input signals as high as 4 volts. So in the sense you're thinking of the gain, mine is virtually turned off. Yet my speakers get the maximum amount of power the amp is capable of producing, when the volume on the head unit is at max. If my preamp signal was only .5 volts max, then my gain would be set to almost "max", (in the sense of a volume knob), but the amp would still behave the exact same way it does now.

So with all that wordy explanation out of the way... you need to know exactly what volume your head unit clips at (which will be max preamp output voltage) and you need to set your gains with the head unit at that volume. If you do that, you'll have no more voice coil cook outs.

Regarding the infrasonic filter (subsonic is not the correct word)... it is to protect the speaker from unloading at frequencies below Fs (its resonant frequency) and it should generally be used on speakers that are 12" and smaller. It should also be used on some 15 & 18 drivers, although they aren't as prone to unloading below Fs as are the smaller ones. And of course, there are smaller speakers that can handle low frequencies but for the level of sub you're using, you need the infrasonic filter set to just below Fs, even in your sealed box.

As for the crossover, 130 hz is a bit high and if you aren't using that setting to make up for a lack of midbass, it should be set to ~80 hz. When you set it above that on a subwoofer, you're asking the subwoofer to pull duty on frequencies it's not designed to play and that can introduce distortion and tax the amplifier to the point of heating up the voice coil(s) in your subs... even without audible distortion or clipping.

Hope that helps and makes some sense.... I'm still on the first cup of coffee this morning. ;-)

 
I don't know what "normal level" is but if it's, say, half way (15 of 35, for example) on a 4 volt out preamp and you set the gain for a 2 volt preamp signal, then every time you turn the volume past half way up... you cause the amp to clip the signal. To better explain that, I'll assume you set gains at volume level 15 and we'll assume that the preamp voltage at that setting is 2 volts. Now, with that setting, you've set your amp to produce its maximum power with a 2 volt signal and any time the preamp voltage exceeds 2 volts (any time the volume goes up past 15), the amplifier is being asked to amplify the waveform more than it actually can. And since amps are dumb in that they don't know what their maximum is, it will happily comply with that request and the result will be a waveform with the peaks cut off. When that happens, even though the sound you hear may not be particularly loud and possibly not even audibly distorted... heat builds up in the speaker's motor. This is because the amp is pushing the cone out (& pulling it in) and then attempting to stop it and hold it for a few milli (or nano) seconds twice for every cycle. So for a 30 hz note, that's 60 times per second that the amp is essentially sending DC voltage through the coil and when that's happening, the motor is not able to dissipate the heat that builds up. And again, all of this can occur even if you aren't driving the sub hard and even if you can't hear audible distortion.
This is why you read or hear people like me saying that where the gain knob is set makes no difference at all with respect to it being set properly. i.e., you can't think of it like a volume control knob and assume that just because it's only set to 25% that it's somehow only turned up 25%. That's simply not true.

As an example, the gain control on the 400 watt amp that runs my door speakers is almost in the "off" position (if it were a volume control). This is because my processor has 4 volt preamp outputs and the amp only accepts input signals as high as 4 volts. So in the sense you're thinking of the gain, mine is virtually turned off. Yet my speakers get the maximum amount of power the amp is capable of producing, when the volume on the head unit is at max. If my preamp signal was only .5 volts max, then my gain would be set to almost "max", (in the sense of a volume knob), but the amp would still behave the exact same way it does now.

So with all that wordy explanation out of the way... you need to know exactly what volume your head unit clips at (which will be max preamp output voltage) and you need to set your gains with the head unit at that volume. If you do that, you'll have no more voice coil cook outs.

Regarding the infrasonic filter (subsonic is not the correct word)... it is to protect the speaker from unloading at frequencies below Fs (its resonant frequency) and it should generally be used on speakers that are 12" and smaller. It should also be used on some 15 & 18 drivers, although they aren't as prone to unloading below Fs as are the smaller ones. And of course, there are smaller speakers that can handle low frequencies but for the level of sub you're using, you need the infrasonic filter set to just below Fs, even in your sealed box.

As for the crossover, 130 hz is a bit high and if you aren't using that setting to make up for a lack of midbass, it should be set to ~80 hz. When you set it above that on a subwoofer, you're asking the subwoofer to pull duty on frequencies it's not designed to play and that can introduce distortion and tax the amplifier to the point of heating up the voice coil(s) in your subs... even without audible distortion or clipping.

Hope that helps and makes some sense.... I'm still on the first cup of coffee this morning. ;-)
Thanks for the in depth explanation. I actually learned a few things from your post! As far as my 'normal' definition I had the radio volume set to about 20 out of 35 and much like you my gains were set to almost 0 as my deck also puts out 4 volts. I also wrote to RF about my issue and they said that while I was in spec I was driving the amp at it's max almost 24/7 and it probably either just decided to die or the speaker took it out when the cone melted. I subbed another amp in that I had lying around to make sure it wasn't a wiring issue and the other amp works without issue. Now that I know it's my amp I'm going to look at taking it to Amp Medics, a sort of local repair shop. RF's repair price is just under $300, but I believe Amp Medics should be able to beat that price by a decent amount. On a different note...this amp and enclosure combination has blown a total of 5 subs. All of the subs (except one) were rated to handle much more than what my amp is rated to put out. The enclosure is supposed to have 1.25 cu ft, but I still think that since it's basically plastic that it is what is killing my subs. Should I get a sub that's DVC 4 OHM and run it at a 2 ohm load instead? I'm thinking of doing that and later this year getting a new enclosure for dual subs and run two at 1 ohm.

 
If your amplifier is stable at 1Ω then there's nothing wrong with showing it a 1Ω load as long as things are set properly. And also, I wouldn't be quick to blame the box for any damages. After all, those Thunderform enclosures are made by a reputable company who has a vested interest in not making something that would cause problems.

If Fosgate has told you there's a likely problem with the amp, then that's the best answer to your problems. And, it makes more sense that an amp could have a problem that causes it to roast speakers than to assume a box does, because there's not much that can change about a box without you knowing it.

Also, as an FYI: I don't remember if you stated what kind of HU you have and if you did, I forgot or didn't read it but in case it's Alpine... Mine's a CDA-9886. I've tested the CDA-105 as well and those clip @ volume level 29 of 35 with no Imprint processor and with one they don't clip at all. So if you have an Alpine model that similar to those, you can set the gains accordingly. If not, I'd recommend asking here or Googling your HU model, as a lot of people have reported where their HUs clip.

 
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