Calling B.S. on all these HO alternators

[Stephen_c 10+ year member]

x2 that video is meaningless to me since they didn't bother to have a tachometer alongside the ammeter and volt meter. Actually, it's pretty stupid they didn't do that since that's the referencing factor in the test //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

the guys car that it was on was totaled, there should be another video soon with a RPM reading.

Ive had a DC alt and its the best alt ive ever owned, i stand behind them 100%

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

Hello Dan. What's your opinion on these things? Ever done some testing of your own or been present when it was done? Ever seen a dual stator Leece Neville? If so you can probably imagine why I question the small ones....

Well, I think the HO alternator market for car audio is mainly bullshit. They claim all this extravagant power out of tiny cases (which some may do, but at what temprature?...I usually see that reference omitted in their power claims)

Even the most expensive, well designed and implemented alternators still cannot hold up to the claims of some of the so called HO alternators you see touted on this site. I myself own a HO Alternator (http://www.hoalternators.com) and I know it doesn't hold up to it's 220 amp output claim.

Maybe I should show what some industrial alternators look like, since weather anyone wants to admit it or not - car audio is indeed an industrial application.

N1375-1 28V 300A alternator for MLRS and Bradley fighting vehicle. (can be retrofited with 12V rectifier)

360 max/270 idle - 12 VDC model 55i-350ACT12-860

Now tell me if the HO alternator in your vehicle looks like that.

btw, these are in excess of $1500

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

I think the reason typical H.O. alts are smaller than these leece's and lexi's you are referring to is simpyl because the large case alts will not practically fit in an everyday vehicle.

Both small and large case alts i'm sure produce the same amperage but the main difference is the larger case alt will be able to dissipate heat for hours on end without worry of failure.

We don't run car audio setups or winches for hours and hours straight so smaller cases work fine for car audio and they better due to size requirements in most newer cars.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

I think the reason typical H.O. alts are smaller than these leece's and lexi's you are referring to is simpyl because the large case alts will not practically fit in an everyday vehicle.
Both small and large case alts i'm sure produce the same amperage but the main difference is the larger case alt will be able to dissipate heat for hours on end without worry of failure.

We don't run car audio setups or winches for hours and hours straight so smaller cases work fine for car audio and they better due to size requirements in most newer cars.

don't forget that the amperage output gets lower the hotter the windings become. All these pretty graphs that these companies are posting on their sites concerning RPM vs Amperage output do not reference coil temps //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

now hold on now, some companies do, some shady ones dont

Next time i have someone with me, i'll clamp my alt's power line while i'm burping a tone for several seconds and get a reading.

My alt says it will produce a max of 257A hot at roughly 5,400rpm alt.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

now hold on now, some companies do, some shady ones dont
Next time i have someone with me, i'll clamp my alt's power line while i'm burping a tone for several seconds and get a reading.

My alt says it will produce a max of 257A hot at roughly 5,400rpm alt.

yep which means at idle you're probably getting 100, if that.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

actually lower than that.

I've only ever got 69.7A out of it at 600rpm. It's rated to do 150A at 800rpm engine.. You know what.. i'm bout to leave soon to go work on a computer...

I'll just set the ammeter to peak hold for various rpm tests and see what i get.

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

actually lower than that.
I've only ever got 69.7A out of it at 600rpm. It's rated to do 150A at 800rpm engine.. You know what.. i'm bout to leave soon to go work on a computer...

I'll just set the ammeter to peak hold for various rpm tests and see what i get.

Thats about what I figured. More proof of the bs. I would go clamp mine, but that would take having to put on shoes and going outside //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

ok i'm back

I could only pull 238A at the rear so that may partly interfere with the max capabiity of the alternator....

I revved the engine to 2,900rpm, pulled 238A of current in the rear, the alt charging cable read 202.3A. There may be some power being supplied by the batteries in this instance so this test is iffy...

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

ok i'm back
I could only pull 238A at the rear so that may partly interfere with the max capabiity of the alternator....

I revved the engine to 2,900rpm, pulled 238A of current in the rear, the alt charging cable read 202.3A. There may be some power being supplied by the batteries in this instance so this test is iffy...

more to the point is that we don't know how low your batteries were to start with //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

fully charged sir.

13.2v with the car off guaranteed.

 

[snb778 5,000+ posts]

Well, I think the HO alternator market for car audio is mainly bullshit. They claim all this extravagant power out of tiny cases (which some may do, but at what temprature?...I usually see that reference omitted in their power claims)
Even the most expensive, well designed and implemented alternators still cannot hold up to the claims of some of the so called HO alternators you see touted on this site. I myself own a HO Alternator (http://www.hoalternators.com) and I know it doesn't hold up to it's 220 amp output claim.

Maybe I should show what some industrial alternators look like, since weather anyone wants to admit it or not - car audio is indeed an industrial application.

N1375-1 28V 300A alternator for MLRS and Bradley fighting vehicle. (can be retrofited with 12V rectifier)

360 max/270 idle - 12 VDC model 55i-350ACT12-860

Now tell me if the HO alternator in your vehicle looks like that.

btw, these are in excess of $1500

I don't know why theres any argument after this statement from Rob

DC_Power_Rob Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2008

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 22

Re: Just installed new alt, now amp goes into protect at idle?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbagumper6

Also, I've been lazy and haven't done the big 3 yet. Just has 1/0 running to the amp.

First off, there's the first red flag.... Factory 8 Ga wire that was on the 70 amp stock alternator, and most likely the stock ground.. That's a good bet that there's the problem.. He does only have a 4G belt as well, and it has an almost stock diameter pulley.. Low output at idle isn't the issue, that alternator will make more output driven 1:1 off the engine than the stock alternator would at 10K RPM's...

Quote:

Maybe there is something that I am missing and they are using some space age windings and stators ..

As a matter of fact, we are... Not trying to be a smart ***, but in all seriousness the alternator that he is running is hands down the most advanced and most efficient alternator there is, (that you can afford anwyays) period.. Just because nobody has done it before, doesn't mean that it can't be done..

Quote:

If I am wrong, good, I want one if it really will do that and I will buy it if so.

So, I can hold you to that? What kind of car do you have so I can get it ready?? We take credit cards, paypal, and good old fashioned cash...

 

Dual stator Leece Nevilles, sure, I've built more than my fair share them.. You dont need dual stator/rotor Leece Nevilles to make 250 amps, just the regular old 2800 series alts are good out to 350 by themselves.. You only need dual stators/rotors if you want to make 650-700 amps @ 12v.. Or, 400 Amps @ 28V.. Whatever, been there done that..

Quote:

I need to put my own equipment on it to measure it because thats the only way I would trust the readings. Meters can be tampered with....

I guess my 2 Fluke meters have been tampered with because obviously your such an expert on these matters, it's just not possible.. So, anytime you want to come by feel free and bring whatever test meters you think you need to make yourself believe it.. Anyone who wants to see it with their own eyeballs drop on by, M-F 8-6 9339 Douglas Dr, Riverside CA 92503..

 

Seriously people, you all have been bit SO many times by dishonest people that when someone actually does do what they say they do you all pile on and call BS...

 

Just like when we put this up



 

But oh yeah, it HAD to be faked because nobody's ever done it before, so therefore DC Power cant do it... Give me a break people...

 

Thread of the night, here we come.... Fire away, I'm awake now...

 

[audioatg 10+ year member]

That vid you posted ^^^^ is the same one a few ppl asked what was the vehicle's RPM at when those figures where taken.

 

[DC_Power_Rob 10+ year member]

Dont bite my head off here. But what was the vehicle's RPM in the video. Just asking is all.

I dont remember exactly what engine RPM, but alternator RPM was between 2200-2250..

x2 that video is meaningless to me since they didn't bother to have a tachometer alongside the ammeter and volt meter. Actually, it's pretty stupid they didn't do that since that's the referencing factor in the test //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

The only reason I didnt have a laser tach on the pulley is I was already holding the camera, and the 2 meters.. I'm not an octopus... Just a tip though, look at the belt in the video CLOSE, if you can see the logo on the belt going past and it's not a blur, that car was at normal idle...

I'll entertain any kind of meaningful discussion of the pro's/con's of high output alternators, and the difference between large alts like Leece Neville, Niehoff, and units like we build.. I have nothing to shy away from..

Are the bigger alts more capable of big numbers, no doubt.. But they are used in TOTALLY different environments and are built to do it for long periods of time.. If you want to get into ratings and BS, Leece Neville is the WORST offender there is for over-rating their alternators.. Their 320 amp unit is rated 320 @ 72°f but your **** lucky to ever see 250 hot..

Like I said in an earlier post, the ONLY reason you all are so skeptical is because there are so many shady companies making BS claims and not backing them up that when something like this comes up your first instinct is to call BULLSH*T... It's like the boy who cried wolf, many times he cried wolf, and many times there was no wolf, so when he did cry wolf when there WAS a wolf, nobody believed him...

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe in the last few years that alternator technology, and increases in efficiency has become such that alternators that will do 200 amps at idle ARE possible?? I got one word for you folks, efficiency, efficiency, efficiency....

I have the video of one of these on the test bench that was shot with 2 tachometers, 2 voltmeters, and 2 ammeters that all say the same thing.. And if anyone doesnt believe me after I upload that, then like I said earlier the doors always open for you to come see it yourself...

 

[snoopdan 5,000+ posts]

I dont remember exactly what engine RPM, but alternator RPM was between 2200-2250..


The only reason I didnt have a laser tach on the pulley is I was already holding the camera, and the 2 meters.. I'm not an octopus... Just a tip though, look at the belt in the video CLOSE, if you can see the logo on the belt going past and it's not a blur, that car was at normal idle...

I'll entertain any kind of meaningful discussion of the pro's/con's of high output alternators, and the difference between large alts like Leece Neville, Niehoff, and units like we build.. I have nothing to shy away from..

Are the bigger alts more capable of big numbers, no doubt.. But they are used in TOTALLY different environments and are built to do it for long periods of time.. If you want to get into ratings and BS, Leece Neville is the WORST offender there is for over-rating their alternators.. Their 320 amp unit is rated 320 @ 72°f but your **** lucky to ever see 250 hot..

Like I said in an earlier post, the ONLY reason you all are so skeptical is because there are so many shady companies making BS claims and not backing them up that when something like this comes up your first instinct is to call BULLSH*T... It's like the boy who cried wolf, many times he cried wolf, and many times there was no wolf, so when he did cry wolf when there WAS a wolf, nobody believed him...

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe in the last few years that alternator technology, and increases in efficiency has become such that alternators that will do 200 amps at idle ARE possible?? I got one word for you folks, efficiency, efficiency, efficiency....

I have the video of one of these on the test bench that was shot with 2 tachometers, 2 voltmeters, and 2 ammeters that all say the same thing.. And if anyone doesnt believe me after I upload that, then like I said earlier the doors always open for you to come see it yourself...

I don't believe anyone was taking shots at you. I certainly wasn't, however I do find your test video to be invalid because you're not covering all the sample points. Your methodology if flawed, reguardless if your alternator does what it says or not. Let me be clear that i'm not flaming your company or product. And if you do a test on a bench, you'd better have a way of heating all of the test mechanism up to ~150 deg and having a thermocouple measurement of such that can be read as well. I guess im trying to reinforce the logic of "if you're going to test, test it correctly and cover your bases".

Now, we ARE taking shots at all the various companies out there whom make HO alternators that fail to meet their claims in current output. Again, we have no idea what their test methodology is that they used to formulate their wild claims and countless people on this site alone have definatley been duped into buying something that clearly it wasn't.