Biden: Wealthy Americans Must Pay More Taxes to Show Patriotism

[Rich B 5,000+ posts]

If you dont increase the taxes on the wealthy, YOU are the one who will end up paying for this welfare for the rich program.........

Bad Debt Plan May Cost Up to Half a Trillion Dollars

By CNBC.com | 18 Sep 2008 | 08:53 PM ET

Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson briefed Congressional leaders on plans to address the "illiquid assets" on U.S. financial institutions' balance sheets, possibly including the creation of a government facility to take on financial firms' bad debts.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26779080

Maybe all you poor mutherf*ckers who want to protect the wealthy can afford this, but the rest of us cant.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

What I want to know is what people want to do to get us out of debt?
Just keep everything the same until we are in so much debt that we get go to war with a country that wants its money or uses that as an excuse to attack us?

All I know is that this administration cut taxes for the rich eight years ago and the state the economy is in now speaks for itself.

How do you propose we get out of this huge trillions of dollars of debt we are in? cut spending? that's not gonna cut it. at all. this "pork barrel earmark" shit only ads up to 20bil/year.

but at the bottom line of this argument is just a deep seated belief each person has. basically it's are you willing to give a little so those less fortunate have an easier time, or do you believe that they should find a way to move up and help themselves?

no argument is going to change anyone's belief on this

I believe stupid people, lower and middle class, tried to live beyond their means. Predatory lending also played a part. A global economy competing with higher paid American employees. Huge disasters (9/11, katrina, etc). Combine that with the bust of the .com boom and spending on wars and it doesn't matter who was in office....fail was to be had.

I'm not sure how we are going to get out of the crisis we are in, I do know that the people helped create it so we ALL should feel some of the burden from it.

True, it should mean something, but what's wrong with sharing the wealth when you have much more than you need to survive + buy things the average person cant even dream of
Like eggy said, in the end, the rich don't really sacrifice all that much...going from a great life to a really really good life...vs the poor who go from a shitty life to barely living

How about people who still live off of slave labor? There are plenty of completely unethical things people have done to get rich as well, screwing over others to get ahead...do they DESERVE it?

You will not change my opinion....I do not negotiate with terrorists //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

As a reminder to those who missed me on page one...

"Keep in mind that MANY small businesses are sole proprietors and would fit under the tax increase for ~250k income. Small business is pretty important to the economy so penalizing them is really not a good way to raise more money for the government, IMO. Not all of that money is for them, but the structure of the company appears that way when taxable income is calculated - that is total business income after expenses. Pretty hard to grow a business with current tax rates as a sole prop much less higher rates."

Taxing a small business an extra 25k a year does = cannot hire another person.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

As a reminder to those who missed me on page one...
"Keep in mind that MANY small businesses are sole proprietors and would fit under the tax increase for ~250k income. Small business is pretty important to the economy so penalizing them is really not a good way to raise more money for the government, IMO. Not all of that money is for them, but the structure of the company appears that way when taxable income is calculated - that is total business income after expenses. Pretty hard to grow a business with current tax rates as a sole prop much less higher rates."

Taxing a small business an extra 25k a year does = cannot hire another person.

Indeed. I don't own a business but I'm assuming 25k could make a dent in advertising, new product development, etc....all of which could lead to future profits that could employ new people. (Or maybe just be extra revenue, which in itself would be taxed and add to the tax pool)

 

[Rashaddd 5,000+ posts]

that $25,000 would not break the rich, but if that person can prevent himself from losing that money just by firing one person, whats stopping him? nothing. its not a matter of whether or not it will make a significant impact for them, but it is more important to realize how it will affect people below the rich.

How does this make any sense?

So you're saying currently, rich people hire people because they have enough money to? Umm...last I heard, people usually hire people because they will BENEFIT from hiring them...

If a company is paying someone 50k, the company is likely making well more than that because of them being there...

I believe stupid people, lower and middle class, tried to live beyond their means. Predatory lending also played a part. A global economy competing with higher paid American employees. Huge disasters (9/11, katrina, etc). Combine that with the bust of the .com boom and spending on wars and it doesn't matter who was in office....fail was to be had.
I'm not sure how we are going to get out of the crisis we are in, I do know that the people helped create it so we ALL should feel some of the burden from it.

You will not change my opinion....I do not negotiate with terrorists //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

The way things are right now, economically, our country is ****ed...ridiculous dept, no way of getting out of it, and we are still dependent on other countries lending to us for our survival...

You said we should ALL feel some of the burden, how is a man making 300k who loses an extra 15k feeling anywhere even remotely close to the burden that a man making 20k losing an extra 1k does? The rich guy will have to sacrifice a little bit of luxury, the poor guy has to sacrifice meals...

Yes, like jake said, taxing a small business extra can make a big difference, but businesses that already are putting up ridiculous profits...? not so much...

Look at exxon for example...billions and billions of profit every quarter...

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

Indeed... take me for instance. If I got to keep 25k I could triple or quadruple that by bringing in more product over the course of a year... all of that money would then be taxable at the lower rate, but still bring in more overall money.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

And we're in iraq because of sept 11th right? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
It just doesn't seem fit to me that for decades, the upper class citizens have had the luxury of maintaining a majority of their money with their tax cuts, while people who barely break even have been made out to be the scape goats when it comes to paying taxes. Now times have changed and we're seeking to get ourselves out of the hole we're in, and people are complaining.

Granted, people may have busted *** to get where they're at, but think about the middle class folks who have practically been paying for the country to maintain its status. Isn't there a certain level of fairness that you upper class individuals feel obligated to uphold?

Would it be better to keep squeezing the middle class?

I just don't see what a better alternative is. Maybe someone can shed some light for me.

Please define "squeezing the middle class"

something tells me you can't define it...

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

If you dont increase the taxes on the wealthy, YOU are the one who will end up paying for this welfare for the rich program.........
Bad Debt Plan May Cost Up to Half a Trillion Dollars

By CNBC.com | 18 Sep 2008 | 08:53 PM ET

Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson briefed Congressional leaders on plans to address the "illiquid assets" on U.S. financial institutions' balance sheets, possibly including the creation of a government facility to take on financial firms' bad debts.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26779080

Maybe all you poor mutherf*ckers who want to protect the wealthy can afford this, but the rest of us cant.

the welfare for the rich and corporate welfare terms are so... false... how can you cut taxes on the poor when they don't pay taxes.......................

ok... I was about to write a long explanation of why huge tax breaks go to the rich and to corporations but it'll just get ignored so it's not even worth it... I'll just stick with the liberal tactics...

Your wrong and you smell like rotting fish, why are you so evil... quit eating babies and stealing from children. Won't someone please think of the children...

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

What I want to know is what people want to do to get us out of debt?
Just keep everything the same until we are in so much debt that we get go to war with a country that wants its money or uses that as an excuse to attack us?

You have to grow the dam economy to pay the debt off. You can't tax your way out of this.

And what is this nonsense about another country attacking us to collect on a debt? You think China = Sopranos?

 

[afterbirth 10+ year member]

Under the economic plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, people earning more than $250,000 a year would pay more in taxes while those earning less — the vast majority of American taxpayers — would receive a tax cut.

Personally I don't think this is a bad plan at all. All the crying by the rich is irrelevant anyway as this IS going to happen. No way Obama loses this election. Especially when every dirty tactic McCain has tried has been discredited. Well, unless you watch Fox News.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[MikeofTulsa Moderator]

Indeed. I don't own a business but I'm assuming 25k could make a dent in advertising, new product development, etc....all of which could lead to future profits that could employ new people. (Or maybe just be extra revenue, which in itself would be taxed and add to the tax pool)

it could potentially screw my business quite a bit.

Personally I don't think this is a bad plan at all. All the crying by the rich is irrelevant anyway as this IS going to happen. No way Obama loses this election. Especially when every dirty tactic McCain has tried has been discredited. Well, unless you watch Fox News.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

anyone that votes for obama has to be stupid. but thats just my opinion.

what do you obama fans think of the other proposed taxes he wants to add for everyone to pay? examples of what each candidate wants below.

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN

0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA

28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN

15% (no change)

OBAMA

39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN

(no changes)

Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)

Single making 30K - tax $8,400

Single making 50K - tax $14,000

Single making 75K - tax $23,250

Married making 60K - tax $16,800

Married making 75K - tax $21,000

Married making 125K - tax $38,750

Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN

- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA

Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes. New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts. New taxes to pay for socialized medicine.

You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.taxes.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/politics/articles/mccain_obama_offer_different_visions_on_taxes.html

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/barack_obama/

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/candidates/john_mccain/

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Personally I don't think this is a bad plan at all. All the crying by the rich is irrelevant anyway as this IS going to happen. No way Obama loses this election. Especially when every dirty tactic McCain has tried has been discredited. Well, unless you watch Fox News.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

uhhh he's down in the polls right now... and obama is hardly above "dirty tricks"... this is politics and heads will roll, to a chorus of empty suits pontificating about nothing (obama's specialty) and accusations of "dirty republican tricks".

That said republicans are generally better for the economy (the debt of the last 8 years is an EPIC FAIL by the republicans, we need someone to CUT SPENDING) so I vote for the one with R by their name...

At least they managed to keep taxes down....

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

At the end of the day the rich are grossing $350,000.00 instead of $375,000.00. THIS WILL NOT BREAK THE RICH, NOR WILL IT MAKE THE LESS-FORTUNATE RICH. No lie, i respect the fact that those who are well off worked their behinds off for what they have, but this is straight greed.
Btw this doesn't benefit me at all. my dad is in the 300K bracket(even though i rarely see any of it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif ) I just have no trouble helping out the unfortunate. I guess its not American at all, just humane

I do not feel the need to redistribute my income by taxation. I can donate to charity, which is a far better mechanism to resdistribute income versus taxation.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I know people who are working 10-12 hrs 5-6 days a week just to survive. It's insulting to those people when the rich complain about tax rates increasing. They truly don't realize how blessed they are.

What's so wrong about having to work 50 - 60 hour weeks to survive? Have you ever met a farmer?

 

[Speedbump3]

I do not feel the need to redistribute my income by taxation. I can donate to charity, which is a far better mechanism to resdistribute income versus taxation.

Yes. It gives everyone the choice of what they feel is a worthwhile contribution to humanity instead of just giving a wad of cash to an entity to decide how to distribute for them.