At what power draw should I be concerned of...

[zoltman1991]

Hi! Now onto the next step of adding multi-channel amps.
I have a 2020 Lexus ES350.

Currently I have a:
-JD1000.1 (1000w at 2o)

I want to add two more amps:
-Alpine S-A32F (55w x 4ch @ 4o = 220w total)
-Punch P500x2 (150w x 2ch @ 4o = 300w total)

At a total output of 1520... does this arrangement warrant upgrading electrical v. battery v. alternator?

I honestly want to keep it below the threshold of concern.
IF 1520w is above this, I am thinking of dropping to a 800w monoblock, which would make it 1320w.
I believe all amps listed are class D.

Click to read more...

 

[Blackout67]

Hi! Now onto the next step of adding multi-channel amps.
I have a 2020 Lexus ES350.

Currently I have a:
-JD1000.1 (1000w at 2o)

I want to add two more amps:
-Alpine S-A32F (55w x 4ch @ 4o = 220w total)
-Punch P500x2 (150w x 2ch @ 4o = 300w total)

At a total output of 1520... does this arrangement warrant upgrading electrical v. battery v. alternator?

I honestly want to keep it below the threshold of concern.
IF 1520w is above this, I am thinking of dropping to a 800w monoblock, which would make it 1320w.
I believe all amps listed are class D.

Got to take into account efficiency of the amplifiers as well. No power transfer is %100 percent efficient. There is always power dissipated as heat. Lower ohm loads results in lower efficiency cause it runs hotter. For good quality Class D you are looking at around 90% efficiency at 4 ohm, 80-90% at 2 and %60-75 at 1 ohm.

Most alternators are rated at max RPM and %80 of the time you're driving it won't ever get that high especially if you're just parked jamming out

Since your Lexus is newer I'm guessing it has 2 batteries for the start stop feature and at least one of them is an AGM. I'm not sure what output your alternator is but I'm sure it's probably rated for 120-140 amps at like 5-6k revs since those asian cars like to rev high. I'd say you should be fine with that amp pull because you are not going to be constantly pulling that power while listening to music and the ohm rating will fluctuate as well. But you can add a supplemental AGM battery for much cheaper and will be easier that installing an alternator.

I'd say start with a 4 gauge OFC big three kit that should do it for you and if not then get the supplemental battery. I'd only get a HO alt of you are constantly over drawing what your stock alt can provide.

Grab a DMM first before buying anything and measure the voltage while you're playing music. If the volume you want to listen to it at isnt pulling the voltage below 13v id say you are golden

 

[Deiimos]

What amperage is the stock alternator rated for? How big / what size is the starting battery?

I’d say 1500w, listening to normal music, it’s not going to be a constant 1500w load, it’s going to be less most of the time on music, but it’s at that edge of upgrading though I think you could probably run that okay.

In my Lincoln Town Car’s, I’ve ran about 2000w, maybe a touch more depending on what amp was powering my door speakers or rear fill when I have ran that. The headlights would dim pretty bad at that power level. I run the 3G OEM 130A alternator option since they are cheap at the salvage yard, and the cars run a somewhat decent size Group 65 starting battery. My battery just took a dump a couple months ago, but it’s 7 years old, so I wouldn’t say the system killed it, and it's had about 1500w in it at least half of that time frame. 7 years isn't bad for a Duralast Gold.

It is at the level where it can stress the factory electrical system, and I'm not familiar with modern vehicles like that to say if the OEM charging is up to the task. But I've gotten away with it for years in my Town Car's. I have used a second battery in the trunk, which stopped any dimming / voltage drop, but most of the time I just have the starting battery in.

Anyway, just my random 2 cents worth.

 

[zoltman1991]

Got to take into account efficiency of the amplifiers as well. No power transfer is %100 percent efficient. There is always power dissipated as heat. Lower ohm loads results in lower efficiency cause it runs hotter. For good quality Class D you are looking at around 90% efficiency at 4 ohm, 80-90% at 2 and %60-75 at 1 ohm.

Most alternators are rated at max RPM and %80 of the time you're driving it won't ever get that high especially if you're just parked jamming out

Since your Lexus is newer I'm guessing it has 2 batteries for the start stop feature and at least one of them is an AGM. I'm not sure what output your alternator is but I'm sure it's probably rated for 120-140 amps at like 5-6k revs since those asian cars like to rev high. I'd say you should be fine with that amp pull because you are not going to be constantly pulling that power while listening to music and the ohm rating will fluctuate as well. But you can add a supplemental AGM battery for much cheaper and will be easier that installing an alternator.

I'd say start with a 4 gauge OFC big three kit that should do it for you and if not then get the supplemental battery. I'd only get a HO battery of you are constantly over drawing what your amp can provide.

Grab a DMM first before buying anything and measure the voltage while you're playing music. If the volume you want to listen to it at isnt pulling the voltage below 13v id say you are golden

Awesome response! Thanks!
I tried looking into it:
Two batteries:
-12-volt battery: Powers systems like the headlamps and audio
-High-voltage hybrid system battery: Powers the electric motors and starts the combustion engine.

My 4awg is wired to the... idk main accessible battery when you pop hood? Not too versed in that field.
Tried also looking into the stock alternator.. no information. I'm seeing IS series (older) at 150a. So I imagine a newer ES series would deviate too much lower. So let's assume 150a perhaps.

Also when you say measure the voltage. Am I measuring the voltage at the amp (power/ground), or actual battery (+/-).

I haven't installed the entire system yet, but I want to plan preemptively. Really want to plan to where I don't need to make any modifications. Maybe big three at the most.

 

[zoltman1991]

What amperage is the stock alternator rated for? How big / what size is the starting battery?

I’d say 1500w, listening to normal music, it’s not going to be a constant 1500w load, it’s going to be less most of the time on music, but it’s at that edge of upgrading though I think you could probably run that okay.

In my Lincoln Town Car’s, I’ve ran about 2000w, maybe a touch more depending on what amp was powering my door speakers or rear fill when I have ran that. The headlights would dim pretty bad at that power level. I run the 3G OEM 130A alternator option since they are cheap at the salvage yard, and the cars run a somewhat decent size Group 65 starting battery. My battery just took a dump a couple months ago, but it’s 7 years old, so I wouldn’t say the system killed it, and it's had about 1500w in it at least half of that time frame. 7 years isn't bad for a Duralast Gold.

It is at the level where it can stress the factory electrical system, and I'm not familiar with modern vehicles like that to say if the OEM charging is up to the task. But I've gotten away with it for years in my Town Car's. I have used a second battery in the trunk, which stopped any dimming / voltage drop, but most of the time I just have the starting battery in.

Anyway, just my random 2 cents worth.

See my reply to the other response as well!

this is what I found for battery:
Duralast Battery BCI Group Size 48 680 CCA H6-DL

 

[Deiimos]

Ah okay hybrid stuff, that could make things a little different, so definitely be careful with it. I drive old vehicles so no clue about any of that stuff. I stay away from modern vehicle electrical systems like that.

 

[Blackout67]

Awesome response! Thanks!
I tried looking into it:
Two batteries:
-12-volt battery: Powers systems like the headlamps and audio
-High-voltage hybrid system battery: Powers the electric motors and starts the combustion engine.

My 4awg is wired to the... idk main accessible battery when you pop hood? Not too versed in that field.
Tried also looking into the stock alternator.. no information. I'm seeing IS series (older) at 150a. So I imagine a newer ES series would deviate too much lower. So let's assume 150a perhaps.

Also when you say measure the voltage. Am I measuring the voltage at the amp (power/ground), or actual battery (+/-).

I haven't installed the entire system yet, but I want to plan preemptively. Really want to plan to where I don't need to make any modifications. Maybe big three at the most.

By the 4 Gauge Big 3 I mean a 4 gauge run from the engine ground to the battery, a 4 gauge run from a fender or somewhere else on the body, and finally a 4 gauge run from the alternator positive post to the battery positive post. Increases the amperage flow from the alternator to the battery and help recollect all the negative electrons back into the negative terminal so the battery can maintain proper chemistry. In other words it will stabilize the voltage. Sounds like a lot but it's really easy and usually you don't even have to remove the stock wires.

I'm not too familiar with hybrid systems so I'm not too sure on that one or which battery to use. Id assume the high voltage battery is lower in the engine bay and in accessible so the one that you're wired up to is likely the accessory batter and starter for the ICE part of your setup. If it isn't an AGM battery, I'd find the biggest battery you can find that's an AGM that will fit without modifications and throw it in there. I usually use O Reilly super start batteries cause they come fully charged and have a generous no questions asked warranty policy for I think like 3 years. AGM batteries discharge and recharge quicker and last longer if they are built well. Many people swear by XS Power batteries but I'm not sold on them.

As for measuring voltage if you are measuring total system voltage test off the battery positive and negative posts, if you can't reach them then ground to body will work. For test the voltage to your amps, it'd just be testing the negative and positive terminals on each amp. You can probably do a Single 0 Gauge OFC run to a buss bar or distribution block in the cabin that you can run 8 gauge to each of your amps since none of them are gonna be pulling a whole lot of power. For the ground you can do the same thing, or at the very least make sure all the amps are grounded to the same bolt.

Sorry the paragraphs I hope this helps

 

[Blackout67]

Ah okay hybrid stuff, that could make things a little different, so definitely be careful with it. I drive old vehicles so no clue about any of that stuff. I stay away from modern vehicle electrical systems like that.

Same. I pick my vehicles based on how easy they are to install in

 

[zoltman1991]

By the 4 Gauge Big 3 I mean a 4 gauge run from the engine ground to the battery, a 4 gauge run from a fender or somewhere else on the body, and finally a 4 gauge run from the alternator positive post to the battery positive post. Increases the amperage flow from the alternator to the battery and help recollect all the negative electrons back into the negative terminal so the battery can maintain proper chemistry. In other words it will stabilize the voltage. Sounds like a lot but it's really easy and usually you don't even have to remove the stock wires.

I'm not too familiar with hybrid systems so I'm not too sure on that one or which battery to use. Id assume the high voltage battery is lower in the engine bay and in accessible so the one that you're wired up to is likely the accessory batter and starter for the ICE part of your setup. If it isn't an AGM battery, I'd find the biggest battery you can find that's an AGM that will fit without modifications and throw it in there. I usually use O Reilly super start batteries cause they come fully charged and have a generous no questions asked warranty policy for I think like 3 years. AGM batteries discharge and recharge quicker and last longer if they are built well. Many people swear by XS Power batteries but I'm not sold on them.

As for measuring voltage if you are measuring total system voltage test off the battery positive and negative posts, if you can't reach them then ground to body will work. For test the voltage to your amps, it'd just be testing the negative and positive terminals on each amp. You can probably do a Single 0 Gauge OFC run to a buss bar or distribution block in the cabin that you can run 8 gauge to each of your amps since none of them are gonna be pulling a whole lot of power. For the ground you can do the same thing, or at the very least make sure all the amps are grounded to the same bolt.

Sorry the paragraphs I hope this helps

No I love the paragraphs! I'm very technical so the more details the better.
Ok so currently I have a 4awg running. I plan on using a fused D-block. Of course, without a doubt, I need to upgrade to a 0awg to the trunk, right?

As for the big 3.. Should I upgrade with 4awg or 0awg? is 0awg just unnecessary?
I'm thinking of keeping the 1000.1, and then adding the other two amps with LC7i. So from what I'm gaining, I'll more than likely be in the clear. IF I need to do something.. big 3 is likely it. I'd have to double check my current battery. I just had it replaced like two months ago. Could possibly already be AGM.

 

[Blackout67]

No I love the paragraphs! I'm very technical so the more details the better.
Ok so currently I have a 4awg running. I plan on using a fused D-block. Of course, without a doubt, I need to upgrade to a 0awg to the trunk, right?

As for the big 3.. Should I upgrade with 4awg or 0awg? is 0awg just unnecessary?
I'm thinking of keeping the 1000.1, and then adding the other two amps with LC7i. So from what I'm gaining, I'll more than likely be in the clear. IF I need to do something.. big 3 is likely it. I'd have to double check my current battery. I just had it replaced like two months ago. Could possibly already be AGM.

No, only 0 Gauge for the big three of you are using a 300+ amp alternator. Even then I'd say that's kind of overkill given how close to the battery the alternator is. I'd also spend the extra money and replace ALL the wiring with Oxygen Free Copper, or OFC. CCA, or Copper Clad Aluminum, is just aluminum wire coated in copper on the outside. It is not as conductive and more prone to degradation. But yea a 0 Gauge OFC run to the distro block

A step up from OFC is is Silver Tinned OFC. Pretty much copper coated in silver which is even more conductive than copper.

 

[Deiimos]

When I've done the big 3, I used whatever wire I was using for the main run, example, last car 2/0 which is bigger than any amps I'll run. Alt to battery, and I do Alt case ground to battery ground, and battery ground to body, then the main run to the back, all 2/0. I say if buying 0 gauge, just buy extra to do it all with that.

 

[Blackout67]

When I've done the big 3, I used whatever wire I was using for the main run, example, last car 2/0 which is bigger than any amps I'll run. Alt to battery, and I do Alt case ground to battery ground, and battery ground to body, then the main run to the back, all 2/0. I say if buying 0 gauge, just buy extra to do it all with that.

Eh realistically 3 feet of 4 gauge OFC is enough to support I think 200 amps of current. A stock alternator will maybe take up like 75 percent of that so I'd say 2/0 is pretty overkill unless you're running 2 or more 400 amp alts, or the battery is a rear battery like in newer Dodges. Upgrading the power wire to that extreme isn't really gonna do much if you aren't pulling the power to warrant them in the first place. It'd be like getting a 1/0 kit for a 500rms amp.

I'd say 4 gauge OFC is more than enough for a stock alternator but if you're wanting to be extra sure, 2 gauge OFC would even work just fine

 

[Deiimos]

Eh realistically 3 feet of 4 gauge OFC is enough to support I think 200 amps of current. A stock alternator will maybe take up like 75 percent of that so I'd say 2/0 is pretty overkill unless you're running 2 or more 400 amp alts, or the battery is a rear battery like in newer Dodges. Upgrading the power wire to that extreme isn't really gonna do much if you aren't pulling the power to warrant them in the first place. It'd be like getting a 1/0 kit for a 500rms amp.

I'd say 4 gauge OFC is more than enough for a stock alternator but if you're wanting to be extra sure, 2 gauge OFC would even work just fine

It's absolutely overkill and that's what I wanted, I don't have to think of the wire, any voltage sag is from alternator or battery, and in the future if I decide to go bigger, I can still use it. I was going to upgrade alternators years ago, and even wanted a dual bracket, but stuff changes, and I stopped really messing with audio gear for the most part, but I still have the wire in case I ever do anything bigger.

I guess my point was since he was questioning if he should use 4 gauge or 0 for the big 3, if buying 0 gauge for the main run, it doesn't make sense to me to buy 4 gauge for the big 3, I'd just buy extra and do it all 0 gauge which is more than enough for these sort of installs. Never hurts going bigger on wire if the room is available, and not much added cost when it comes to the big 3, usually. 4 gauge would probably be fine for his application with zero problems. I run 4 gauge in my older Town Car and it's never let me down with similar system power to what Zoltman is talking about, that wire has been in there for many years. But if he buys 0 gauge, I'd still do it all in 0, that's just me though.

 

[2RZ-FE 10+ year member]

I like to add to the stock wiring not replace it. Is that what you guys do? So I have whatever is on there stock with additional 4awg runs

 

[Deiimos]

I like to add to the stock wiring not replace it. Is that what you guys do? So I have whatever is on there stock with additional 4awg runs

The stock wiring is OEM and rock solid for the most part, and my opinion and what I learned years ago, you leave that in and install your big 3 over it or next to it.

The way I’ve seen people install connectors on wire (sometimes not good), it would be problematic if everyone pulled the stock power wires; starting issues, electrical issues and who knows what else. Proper parallel wire just adds slightly to current handling so I personally would never take it out.