Ascendant Audio Havoc 18... and older stuff.

[Duke 10+ year member]

They do very well in car audio indeed:up2somet:

Avalanche 18:

Qts - .4

Qms - 6

Qes - .43

Vas - 550 Liters

Fs - 16 Hz

Re - 3.2 ohm

Le - 2.4 mH

Xmax - 27mm

800 Watts Rms

Sd 187.55 square inches.

Avalanche 15:

Qts - .3

Qms - 3.5

Qes - .33

Vas - 300.6 Liters

Fs - 15.7 Hz

Re - 3.2 ohm

Le - 2.4 mH

Xmax - 27mm

800 Watts Rms

Sd 116.09 square inches.

Avalanche 12:

Qts - .36

Qms - 4.36

Qes - .39

Vas - 80 Liters

Fs - 23 Hz

Re - 2.8 ohm

Le - ?? mH

Xmax - 27mm

800 Watts Rms

Sd 74.4 square inches.

I believe that sensitivity for all three drivers was around 89 db.

Remember, the Avalanches used Adire's XBL^2 gap to have more excursion and constant BL. They found a similar technology that was free which is why they switched motors. I think it might be split coil on all their new stuff. They will update their website when they start the auctions.

 

[Captain_Ahab 5,000+ posts]

I have been craving an Ava 18 ever since I joined this forum..

 

[I want SExxx 10+ year member]

As for the xmax..... Xmax is no indicator what so ever of the "loudness of a driver" Nor does xmax determine how much a driver can move. It is just a point at which a driver looses a certain percentage of its motor strength from the coil moving in the gap. I believe its like 70%.

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Balls.

nG

 

[xluben 10+ year member]

As for the xmax..... Xmax is no indicator what so ever of the "loudness of a driver" Nor does xmax determine how much a driver can move. It is just a point at which a driver looses a certain percentage of its motor strength from the coil moving in the gap. I believe its like 70%.

my understanding is that xmax is max, one way, linear excursion. so yes, they can move more than xmax, but will do it with greater distortion.

also, displacement (xmax and Sd) along with power handling and sensitivity will give a theoretical measure of max output.

so, with displacement going down about 16%, power handling also slightly lower, and similar sensitivities, it seems that the arsenals would have a lower theoretical max output.

i'm gonna get the arsenal's no matter what, i was just curious why they seemed to have stepped downwards

(i'm guessing for a lower price point, i heard on another forum the avalanche 15 was close to $300, and the arsenals are quite a bit cheaper).

anyone know what the avalanche's actually sold for?

 

[Pimpdaddyq 10+ year member]

when i used to have my avalanches before my havocs.. I paid $300 for the first one from AA, then when they brought out the new models they droped the prices, and I got the 2nd for $225 from AA. Then i went to the havocs.. can't wait to see these auctions. I wonder what the 18" Havocs will go for.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/greedy.gif.5a53e6246569d7ab79867170f3b06629.gif

Andrew

 

[I want SExxx 10+ year member]

my understanding is that xmax is max, one way, linear excursion. so yes, they can move more than xmax, but will do it with greater distortion.
also, displacement (xmax and Sd) along with power handling and sensitivity will give a theoretical measure of max output.

so, with displacement going down about 16%, power handling also slightly lower, and similar sensitivities, it seems that the arsenals would have a lower theoretical max output.

i'm gonna get the arsenal's no matter what, i was just curious why they seemed to have stepped downwards

(i'm guessing for a lower price point, i heard on another forum the avalanche 15 was close to $300, and the arsenals are quite a bit cheaper).

anyone know what the avalanche's actually sold for?

Eh the distortion thingy about going beyond xmax is inaudible for the most point. And your forgetting two of the most important factor for the output and that's the BL (motor Strength) and the suspension.

Arsenals are a tad louder then Avalanches...... well at least ported.

Arsenals are better then anything in the previous lineup..... for car audio anyways.

Avalanche 15's went for 300 then 225 18's went for 400 then 275.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

BL is an important factor, however the xmax is when the motor force drops to 70%vs resting position, ala a BL correlated stat. Xmax isn't important in true SPL applications, but for SQ oriented sealed alignments it's a very important spec. The only real reason ascendant audio switches was because chad got into a fight with dan over a comment that dan said "all XBL^2 drivers arent' created equal". He was tired of hearing that brahmas and avalanches were the same since they used XBL^2, but the brahmas were more expensive, hence a bad deal. It really didn't have much to do with a technology improvement. Notice that in the page describing the arsenal the only thing they can really say for it is that it's more effecient. So for small signal mockups like WinISD, it'll measure better.

 

[I want SExxx 10+ year member]

So you think that Chad all the sudden magically popped up 3 lines of great drivers in that short of time after Dan started his shit........ Don't get me started on Adire the BBB will deal with them....... The drivers were in the works LONG before the drama..... that's just when Chad decided to change it up...... and Actualy real world tests prove the new drivers to be superioe to the old ones.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

As for the xmax..... Xmax is no indicator what so ever of the "loudness of a driver" Nor does xmax determine how much a driver can move. It is just a point at which a driver looses a certain percentage of its motor strength from the coil moving in the gap. I believe its like 70%.

In general, a driver with more xmax is capable of more linear output; it's that simple. The ways that xmax is rated vary, but 70% of rest BL is the point at which distortion becomes "noticeable" and output drops by 3dB. Sure, you can go beyond xsus or xmag and approach xmech, but you will see substantial power compression at this point and performance will be compromised; this is exactly why xmax was developed.

Eh the distortion thingy about going beyond xmax is inaudible for the most point. And your forgetting two of the most important factor for the output and that's the BL (motor Strength) and the suspension.

Well, distortion beyond xmax is noticeable...how much more audible it is than when at exactly xmax is debateable though.

And your argument about output related to BL and the suspension only further supports xmax, as it considers both of these areas (although xmax clearly does not consider the raw BL or BL^2/Re).

and Actualy real world tests prove the new drivers to be superioe to the old ones.

Please show one of these real world tests. I am not saying that you are wrong, but I will believe it when I see it.

Neil

 

[yne721 10+ year member]

define clean power please?

 

[xluben 10+ year member]

Please show one of these real world tests. I am not saying that you are wrong, but I will believe it when I see it.

Neil

there's this:

http://forum.carstereos.org/p-arsenal-more-questions-post602603/postcount35

shows that at reference the arsenal is flatter and has way more upper end extension (if you're into that kind of thing), but doesn't really show what'd happen with some real power, in a real world situation.

personally, i'm just running 6.5 coaxial's up front, so being able to low pass the sub at 100Hz isn't bad thing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

EDIT: well not at reference, but with low power in an open area.

also, mine are gonna go in 3.5ft^3 @ 32Hz so i know what my response should look like //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[baseballer1100 5,000+ posts]

Whats the best way to get a hold of them? Ive tried to order from them and no response.

 

[Starky 10+ year member]

They're goin on Ebay Bro

 

[Hundreth 10+ year member]

there's this:
http://forum.carstereos.org/p-arsenal-more-questions-post602603/postcount35

shows that at reference the arsenal is flatter and has way more upper end extension (if you're into that kind of thing), but doesn't really show what'd happen with some real power, in a real world situation.

That just shows one graph for one box alignment in one vehicle. It really doesn't show that the Arsenal will play flatter.