Ascendant Audio Assassin line out

[blackgeltabs 5,000+ posts]

Chad did no such thing...
It's much more complicated than all of that

Chad didnt do anything, he just got upset when Dan said Adires xbl^2 technology was superior to the rest.

Then company antics came into play. Sorry in my eyes adire wins

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Basically someone made the comment "Why would I pay $XXX for the Adire sub, when I can get the same thing from Ascendant for much less." Dan responded by saying something to the effect of "All XBL^2 drivers are not created equally"....meaning two subs that both have XBL^2 are not automatically going to have the same performance as you still need to design an entire sub around that technology. Dan's statement, ofcourse, is common sense to anybody with more than hollow space between their ears.....but for whatever reason Chad found this statement of the obvious offensive and decided to essentially trash Dan and Adire on AA's website and mention how he has found this new, wonderful, equally as good and free technology and will be dropping XBL^2.

I'll never do business with AA because of the way Chad handled himself through it.....Whether or not there was more behind the scenes stuff or whatever that makes it more "complicated" I don't really care.....posting the short novel on the AA website such as Chad did, bringing down the owner of one of your competitors, and the licensor of the technology you use in your own products, is NOT the way to handle the situation and I think showed Chad's true colors of feeling the need to publicly drag names through the mud whenever he is not happy.

 

[saywhat? 5,000+ posts]

Yes......and ?? I'm missing the point of this statement, apparently.

guess i cant fathom paying that much for that little of a sub, except for to mike over at SS aas well.......hes a bad *** guy and dont mind throwing some money at him.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

guess i cant fathom paying that much for that little of a sub, except for to mike over at SS aas well.......hes a bad *** guy and dont mind throwing some money at him.

Just off the top of my head the Image Dynamics ID8v3, Crystal CMP8, SS Rl-i8 and eD 9Kv2 are all in that same price range. It really isn't that unreasonable of a price (unless, ofcourse, it doesn't perform nearly as well as the other products in that price range). And the JL 8W7 is much more expensive.

 

[blackgeltabs 5,000+ posts]

Basically someone made the comment "Why would I pay $XXX for the Adire sub, when I can get the same thing from Ascendant for much less." Dan responded by saying something to the effect of "All XBL^2 drivers are not created equally"....meaning two subs that both have XBL^2 are not automatically going to have the same performance as you still need to design an entire sub around that technology. Dan's statement, ofcourse, is common sense to anybody with more than hollow space between their ears.....but for whatever reason Chad found this statement of the obvious offensive and decided to essentially trash Dan and Adire on AA's website and mention how he has found this new, wonderful, equally as good and free technology and will be dropping XBL^2.

I'll never do business with AA because of the way Chad handled himself through it.....Whether or not there was more behind the scenes stuff or whatever that makes it more "complicated" I don't really care.....posting the short novel on the AA website such as Chad did, bringing down the owner of one of your competitors, and the licensor of the technology you use in your own products, is NOT the way to handle the situation and I think showed Chad's true colors of feeling the need to publicly drag names through the mud whenever he is not happy.

Thats exactly how I feel, id hope that when Dan does license them he dosnt let out all the little secrets of it. Then there would be nothing left for them. Got to protect your own business.

 

[Feandil 10+ year member]

Basically someone made the comment "Why would I pay $XXX for the Adire sub, when I can get the same thing from Ascendant for much less." Dan responded by saying something to the effect of "All XBL^2 drivers are not created equally"....meaning two subs that both have XBL^2 are not automatically going to have the same performance as you still need to design an entire sub around that technology. Dan's statement, ofcourse, is common sense to anybody with more than hollow space between their ears.....but for whatever reason Chad found this statement of the obvious offensive and decided to essentially trash Dan and Adire on AA's website and mention how he has found this new, wonderful, equally as good and free technology and will be dropping XBL^2.

I admittedly didn't pay attention to the online antics of either side

all I remember is AA leaving I don't recall Chad trashing XBL^2

saying other technologies are better/cheaper and offer the same benefits is undoubtably true... and that's no sign of anything else malicious that I've seen

Dan himself said in the Adire forum that XBL^2 is superior to LMT and split coil... and in some ways it is... but in a lot of important ways it's not

and those aren't even close to the only ways to achieve flat BL

I don't doubt Chad "found" something as good or better than XBL2...

to be honest Chad thought Dan was stating something negative about his products ... whether or not this was Dan's intention that's how it came off to a lot of people

There are plenty of ways to approach a speaker design and XBL2 while overall of Split coil, LMT, XBL2 comparison it happens to be seemingly the most efficent/lowest inductance you forget the other 4-5 ways to achieve a flat BL

and also XBL2 will have the lowest power handling of the bunch and the most costs associated with it...

seemingly adding on top of that royalties etc it's not a very positive thing for a lot of companies... and having a owner of the technology seemingly saying "your XBL2 isn't as good as my XBL2" will undoubtably ruffle already hurting feathers

just my 2 cents... as I try to see it from a more business point of view from both sides

 

[Feandil 10+ year member]

Thats exactly how I feel, id hope that when Dan does license them he dosnt let out all the little secrets of it. Then there would be nothing left for them. Got to protect your own business.

no offense but there isn't any "secrets" to XBL2.... model it up in a FEA program and in Magneto and you'll be able to find out every "nuisance" in a day's time

it's straight forward how it does what it does...

LMT is a good deal more complicated... split coil is cheaper than XBL2 or LMT and less complicated

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

to be honest Chad thought Dan was stating something negative about his products ... whether or not this was Dan's intention that's how it came off to a lot of people

*shrug*

I see how it could be interpreted that way, but regardless of how it's interpreted, there were/are better ways to handle it than what he did. That's the important part.

...you'll be able to find out every "nuisance" in a day's time

Nuance? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Well, the Shivas didn't have XBL^2, so it's not quite as ironic as it could be...
Basically, Chad of AA misinterpreted, IMO, a statement from Dan Wiggins of Adire about XBL^2 licensed drivers...feeling hurt, AA took their toys and went to play in their own sandbox and dumped their entire lineup of XBL^2 enabled drivers. Burned a big bridge there, and personally I'm a little hesistant of ordering something from AA because of it. It's just not behavior that really sets a good image for your company.

As the speaker world turns...

If you only knew the half of it bud //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif.

Now that I have read the rest of the thread...only if ANY of you knew the half of it.

NG

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

PM me the real story, then...I only go by what I read...which admittedly is probably full of lies and misinformation //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Feandil 10+ year member]

Nuance? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

lol sleep deprivation my apologies //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif :crap: //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

I'm sure it could have been handled better on both sides just like my relations with Adire

but again as someone who's dealt with Dan personally for months at a time he can assuredly make you a bit flustrated and even angry.

Not saying anything negative about either side as I do not know the whole story, however writing off a company's products because of something that developed with Adire seems strange to me. If AA's products are good and Chad is a good guy (which he is) and he makes something you want why not get it?

When a company stops using a technology and very "e-famous" buildhouse something has to be said.

I wish Chad would give more information on how AA is achieving flat BL now just to quiet some concerns if he "really found something better"

there are things better for certain applications, and there are things much cheaper and the same for certain applications.

take everything both sides say with a grain of salt and just look at data and the truth.... it's much easier than weeding through marketing

 

[Feandil 10+ year member]

If you only knew the half of it bud //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif.
Now that I have read the rest of the thread...only if ANY of you knew the half of it.

NG

I know most of it from Chad's side...

It's, like I said, more complicated.

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

I just find it sad that all of these people have fallen pray to Adire/Wiggins propaganda. He's kind of reminds me of this one guy...a lot, I think his name was Hitler. And I'm not kidding.

NG

 

[blackgeltabs 5,000+ posts]

I just find it sad that all of these people have fallen pray to Adire/Wiggins propaganda. He's kind of reminds me of this one guy...a lot, I think his name was Hitler. And I'm not kidding.
NG

Thats true, ive realized I know nothing of this situation. So im going to stop, I thrive on my open mindedness and I was being quite closed. Still dont like eD though.

 

[Feandil 10+ year member]

I just find it sad that all of these people have fallen pray to Adire/Wiggins propaganda. He's kind of reminds me of this one guy...a lot, I think his name was Hitler. And I'm not kidding.
NG

Dan is a very knowledgable person and is able to harness this in marketing his products... and he also was part of the creation of a cool new flat BL tech... which admittedly has it's place in audio world (not the all encompasing place that many people believe it has but nonetheless it's useful)

He's a businessman like anyone else, Ology won't do business with him again, AA won't either and likely RE won't again as well (though I know nothing about why they went to split coil but I have a good guess why)

Dan has VERY specific ideas about what's important in a loudspeaker... and they generally are more home audio oriented (though a lot of home audio people don't like em either)