Anything comparable to the DEX-P9?

[Igno 10+ year member]

can you post up any specs does it have digital in?

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

From a JBL employee:

I've received lots of PM and a bunch of questions about how this thing will work, so this is more for informative purposes than a shameless plug for our product...For those of you who may be wondering about this thing, Here's a description:
MS-8 comes with the pre-amp/amp, a small display, a wireless remote control, a binaural microphone and a setup CD.

MS-8 will have 8 speaker level inputs, 8 line level inputs and an iPod input. The inputs are summed to provide a full-range 2-channel signal. If 6 or fewer inputs are required, then the last 2 can be used for an additional aux input.

There are no digital inputs. Why? Because the real benefit of digital input is "no noise". The downside to providing one is that for 99 percent of users, it's more hassle than it's worth and will cause a great deal of confusion. Not too many people understand that the connector doesn't determine the signal. What I mean is, if we put a toslink input and a user hooks up a toslink output, it will only work is the signal is compatible. DVD-Audio isn't available on a digital output, DVD signals are 48k, PCM is 44.1, home-made digital audio can be anything. The signal from tuners is often only output on the RCAs. For the vast majority of users, there is no benefit and too much opportunity for disappointment. As far as noise goes, our inputs are differential, so the commoon mode noise rejection is super high. There won't be any noise.

There are 8 input channels, so the 8 speaker level inputs and 8 line level inputs are basically in parallel. You can use any combination.

Once the signals have been combined and un-EQed (for a flat 2-channel signal), the signal is processed with Logic7. That provides signal steering for a center channel (if you have one--if not, no problem) and processing for side and rear channels. L7 works on any 2-channel source and is our version is written for cars rather than live-in rooms, so it sounds MUCH better than any of the encoded formats in a car. The 2-channel downmix of any encoded DVD or DVD-A disc will play back in full surround. If good-old 2-channel is what you want, L7 is defeatable and the channels are fully configurable (there are 8 output channels and they can be pre-amp channels or powered channels--20W x 8 at 4 ohms, 30W at 2 ohms). You can have 3-way front, a center and a sub, 2-way front, rear and a sub...whatever you want to do.

The electronic crossover that's built in is fully configurable. You can assign any channel to be anything and it includes an EZ setup mode and an advanced mode. In EZ setup, you tell each channel the speaker location (front right, for example), then you tell it what speaker is connected (6" full-range). It sets the crossover point. In advanced mode, you tell the channel the location (right front) and then assign a filter type (HP, LP, BP) and then you set the filter frequency (you can assign any value between 20 at 20kHz) and the slope (1st-4th order).

After the crossover setup is completed, you move on to the EQ. You put on the microphones (they look like airline headphones but contain mics instead of speakers) and insert the CD. The display will give you some instructions to sit in the driver's seat and look at the left mirror and press "go". the unit will make a quick sweep of all 8 output channels. Then it will ask you to look forward and will make another sweep. Finally, it'll ask you to look to the right--another quick sweep. You can measure only the driver's seat or up to 4 seats. After the measurements are made (takes about 5 minutes) the unit will calculate the frequency response, level and arrival time for all 8 channels in each seat and crunch some numbers (another 30 seconds or so). It auto-tunes the car with 48 measurements per seat (up to 4 seats). It will output a tuning optimized for the driver, passenger, compromise between driver and passenger and one for the rear seats. If you use a center channel, both front seats will sound the same and the image will be great for rear seat passengers too.

After the auto-tuning is done, it will allow you to change the target curve. You can call up a 31-band EQ tool and make whatever changes you want. Unlike a regular EQ, you don't have to find an RTA and tune the car with the EQ, you just draw the curve you want to hear and press "go" and it does the work in implementing your curve. Then you can switch back and forth between your curve and the automatic one and continue making changes until you're satisfied. The curve you draw will always be adjusted in level so that the maximum number of bits are available to describe the signal (optimized for dynamic range). Once you save the curve, you can access any of the settings optimized for any seat using the remote control and the display.

You can turn Logic7 on and off, adjust the level of the center channel, use a balance control, fader, 3 or 11-band graphic EQ or adjust the level of the bass. THe bass control isn't a gain control for the subwoofer output, it's a filter that works with the crossover and applies the right amount of bass to ALL channels so the illusion of bass up front isn't destroyed when you turn up the bass.

Answers to some likely questions:

1. You don't have to use the unit's volume control. You can use the one in the head-unit if you want to.

2. Maximum input voltage on the RCAs is 2V and 15V on the speaker level inputs. The signal is converted directly into digital after the preamp buffer, so a high signal level is far less important in this device than in conventional ones. The input is fully differential, so there won't be noise. I suggest speaker level connections because they are COMPLETELY isolated from ground.

3. The automatic EQ isn't exactly parametric or graphic. It's a very powerful algorithm that works on the impulse response to adjust both time and frequency response. It's amazing and does in about 30 seconds what I can do with an 80 band parametric EQ, crossover, time alignment and a serious analyzer in about 3 days.

4. The display doesn't have to be mounted. If you don't want iPod control or the ability to adjust after setup, you can unplug the display and use MS-8 as a "black box".

5. The unit is small--about 8.5" x 11" x 2.5"

6. Price will be about $800...TBD

7. The software is updatable via USB and a PC.

It does what all other OEM integration tools do and what every other DSP (EQ, Crossover, Time alignment, 7.1) processors do, but it sounds better, is easier to use, is less expensive and is far more advanced in terms of DSP power. Best of all, it's a tool you can be successful with, rather than a whiz-bang collection of filters and adjustment possibilities that require a PhD in acousitcs to use.

It does not have Digital inputs.

Here is the thread it came from.

That little unit has some seriously sick algorithyms. It does some cool stuff.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

Its official, no HU for me.

Its going to be a car-puter, possibly in dash with a laptop drive and a http://www.mp3car.com tuner to handle HD and analog radio. Then the Apline H701/C701 unit will handle volume control, EQing, X-over, time alignment, etc. Yes I'm back to the old alpine unit. Its got a stylish control unit that will blend well with the interior of my Maxima, it will do exactly what I want, it will allow me to use toshlink outputs keeping the D->A/A->D conversions to a minimum and the combo should be far cheaper than the JBL unit.

Sweet! Now that I know what I'm doing, I just need to sort out what hardware I need to get to make this computer happen!

 

[Babs 10+ year member]

I'd love to see how a car-puter / H701 works out.

So you'll have a couple control "panels" then I guess..

One for the car-pc and the c701.

I'm really considering the ms-8 if for any reason it's a single box that does it all and I'd get to keep the 6-disc OEM clarion in the dash. Just add ms-8, speakers, sub and sub-amp and you're done. And of course, I'd do good speaker re-wiring and some raamatt, and probably upgrade from the built in MS-8 amps, eventually, if needed in the little forester.

And, if I reeeeeally wanted to go SQ, believe it or not.. Could use an iPod with lossless, through http://www.hippohifi.com/index.html, then into aux input of the ms-8 and control the volume from the ms-8 control.. All while the dash looks completely stock.

 

[Babs 10+ year member]

can you post up any specs does it have digital in?

No digi-ins.. the MS-8 is like the H650 and 3Sixty units.. OEM integration, meaning takes speaker level analog from any head unit and possibly RCA line-levels. Then it digi-processes, then sends analog-out, line level or other. So yes, there's more DA conversion but apparantly these units are pretty clean. Seems like the cleansweep started it, then the 3sixty said "oh yeah, how bout time alignment, then now the mark to reach is "just push a button to tune".

Some publication could do an "OEM integration processor shootout" to see who's the daddy when the new units come out. They all look pretty good.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

I'd love to see how a car-puter / H701 works out.
So you'll have a couple control "panels" then I guess..

One for the car-pc and the c701.

I'm really considering the ms-8 if for any reason it's a single box that does it all and I'd get to keep the 6-disc OEM clarion in the dash. Just add ms-8, speakers, sub and sub-amp and you're done. And of course, I'd do good speaker re-wiring and some raamatt, and probably upgrade from the built in MS-8 amps, eventually, if needed in the little forester.

And, if I reeeeeally wanted to go SQ, believe it or not.. Could use an iPod with lossless, through http://www.hippohifi.com/index.html, then into aux input of the ms-8 and control the volume from the ms-8 control.. All while the dash looks completely stock.

Yep, two control panels it will be.

 

[Babs 10+ year member]

So how hard is it to do a carputer?

Anyone built one with serious SQ?

Crossovers, time alignment, etc.?

Makes me think with all the stuff going on in the PC, you'd have to have the audio processing external via an H701 or similar, or you risk noise and signal degradation if you process the audio in the PC.

Would be cool to use the car-pc as a music server though.

 

[Igno 10+ year member]

http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/

info here

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

So how hard is it to do a carputer? Anyone built one with serious SQ?

Crossovers, time alignment, etc.?

Makes me think with all the stuff going on in the PC, you'd have to have the audio processing external via an H701 or similar, or you risk noise and signal degradation if you process the audio in the PC.

Would be cool to use the car-pc as a music server though.

There really aren't any affordable solutions for in computer sound processing. External processors like the JBL, Alpine and Pioneer units are far more adept at doing all the processing that is needed, and at a far far cheaper price.

Basically, this is what I had planned.

CarPC with Toshlink->Alpine H701/C701->Memphis 5004 and Memphis Belle1300->Custom front stage and dual RL-i10s glassed in the trunk.

The computer only passes the audio on to typical car audio equipment. Most people who install car puters do so for music server, GPS, Nav, Internet and other functions. You can build a small Windows based MiniITX rig for about 800 dollars that can do all that, and then some.

If you go with a *nix build then even an el-cheapo 500mhz PIII will do the trick.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

O, and yes, there are many people over at mp3car.com that compete and win with their car computers. Not to mention, integrating CD playback, radio, HD radio and sat radio is a simple affair. Many people don't even bother with Head Units either. If I wasn't so stuck on having tactile control of my stereo, I'd go with a double din screen mounted in my dash and just control the radio using the touchscreen.

 

[Babs 10+ year member]

... Many people don't even bother with Head Units either.

Given the current choices in head units, I don't blame them..

Basically, it's just an AM/FM radio and a disc transport "reader"...

The processor receiving digital, amps and drivers do the rest.. If you can pipe in radio into the processor somehow, even better.

Eh, I might just have to break down and get silly and go with a drz9255 and be done with it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif