Another Reason For Rear Fill...

[///M5 10+ year member]

Bottom line is if you gain anything with rear fill you have done a very poor job of installing your front stage and fail as an installer in my book.

 

[azbass 5,000+ posts]

Ha, ha, ha. That is some funny chit. What you are hearing is a very poorly tuned system, there is absolutely NO four channel information on that disk. What you describe is complete stage degradation and absolute nonsense. If you would have put your money into implementing your front stage correctly all of the spatial cues would be there, but instead of arbitrarily floating around your car they would actual move in a cohesive stage.

lol. oh snap son

 

[MBrock4u 10+ year member]

All these funny responses. LOL! I heard what I heard and it sounded damm good. As far as putting money in a solid front stage my friend, I have! Properly tunned, yes indeed, it is to allow for some rear fill. All you have to do is pull the front up fader up a few notches and you are set. I have NEVER said anywhere or anytime that rear fill is better. I understand fully that you can have a fabulous system without rear fill at all. It is just a personal preference.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

what your hearing isn't the point, it's what your NOT hearing due to improper speaker placement. A car has more reflected sounds than just about any concert you'll ever go to. So rear fill for the sake of immersion isnt' needed. Rear fill will however will hurt your stage depth as well as other spatial cues. Which is a huge immersion killer, IMO. Anytime you can close your eyes and imagine the bass player playing 5 feet away from your face, out on the hood, at a defined location you can easily point too, that's immersive, IMO!

 

[baseballer1100 5,000+ posts]

If your fronts blow I somehow don't think that the rear fill will make up for it. Besides if you don't abuse everything should be ok. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

well lets see they were temporary to begin with and had to keep up with my btls. I was kinda being saracastic as i want something to hold me over until i get new speakers up front

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Bottom line is if you gain anything with rear fill you have done a very poor job of installing your front stage and fail as an installer in my book.

PURELY subjective statement. There is NO right or wrong way, only what the listener/owner enjoys.

Not everyone is concerned with stage depth, imaging, sound coming from the middle of the windshield, or whatever. I'd say the majority just want some decent sounding tunes while commuting.

I have a nice front stage, but at times I want more, so my rear fill amp is wired to a toggle switch. I've also set the amp gain, so it's NOT as loud as the front, but still plenty loud. Sound still seems as if it comes from the front but is MUCH louder and fuller sounding. I personally like being immersed in the sound at times.

For ME daily driver SQL is about: plenty of lows, mids that punch you in the chest, and detailed and pleasing highs, AND the ability to get VERY loud, but still sound good at that volume.

Seems like 99% of the no rear fill guys act as if everyone should set their car up for SQ comps. Seems pointless if you're not going to compete.

I'll say it again: IMO the majority of people throwing a system in a car would be VERY happy with a 4 channel amp and 2 pair of coax's and a decent sub. Most bang for the buck, especially for listeners who aren't so discerning.

But again I do understand the "other" side.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

PURELY subjective statement. There is NO right or wrong way, only what the listener/owner enjoys.
Not everyone is concerned with stage depth, imaging, sound coming from the middle of the windshield, or whatever. I'd say the majority just want some decent sounding tunes while commuting.

I have a nice front stage, but at times I want more, so my rear fill amp is wired to a toggle switch. I've also set the amp gain, so it's NOT as loud as the front, but still plenty loud. Sound still seems as if it comes from the front but is MUCH louder and fuller sounding. I personally like being immersed in the sound at times.

For ME daily driver SQL is about: plenty of lows, mids that punch you in the chest, and detailed and pleasing highs, AND the ability to get VERY loud, but still sound good at that volume.

[seems like 99% of the no rear fill guys act as if everyone should set their car up for SQ comps. Seems pointless if you're not going to compete.

I'll say it again: IMO the majority of people throwing a system in a car would be VERY happy with a 4 channel amp and 2 pair of coax's and a decent sub. Most bang for the buck, especially for listeners who aren't so discerning.

But again I do understand the "other" side.

Have you ever heard a high end SQ car, like one that can actually compete and place well in a SQ comp? It's an experience, I can tell you that. It's simialar to setting in front of high end HT gear, not the 5.1 stuff, but actual music oriented gear. There's a very good reason people want their cars to sound like that, simply put, a daily driver is designed to play music. SQ cars are designed to play music well.

 

[MBrock4u 10+ year member]

I wouldn't argue that point, but seems to me people who ride in my car love what they hear, especially me. I get many complements on my system, because it is well balanced and blending. For me, I am a happy camper. I won't be going to any sq compatitions any time soon. LOL!

 

[ramos 5,000+ posts]

IMO speaking musically in a competitive sq vehicle , a properly tuned , well installed front stage. Should make the listener perceive the same exact "rear fill" as you hear in a concert. Without the need for extra drivers . There is not band behind you at a concert . It's just reflections off of objects behind you . A good front stage can accomplish this. Rear fill to me is like using too much TA , a band aid for other problems . But I'm just an opinionated old fart //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[phyphoestilic 5,000+ posts]

I wouldn't argue that point, but seems to me people who ride in my car love what they hear, especially me. I get many complements on my system, because it is well balanced and blending. For me, I am a happy camper. I won't be going to any sq compatitions any time soon. LOL!

we'r trying to tell u that if u just had a good front stage u wouldnt need the "rear" fill. Obviously u havnt heard a good front stage. I'm glad that ur happy with what u got, but the point we'r trying to make is that the rear fill is pointless.

 

[Kenny Pollock 10+ year member]

and of course women like renee are pro rear fill. i would like all women to be.

LOL

 

[psych0ticnemes1 5,000+ posts]

i'm happy with just my polk coax's off of my deck up front. Strangely enough, they get as loud and sound as good off my deck as they do off of my jbl 180.2. They aren't very power hungry speakers.

That being said, i listen to a lot of rock, classic and modern, some hip hop, country (come on, it is funny stuff!) and i must say, if you want your vehicle to sound like a concert, fronts are the only way to go. Rears, to me, take away a bit of the detail in the music. Just my opinion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

we'r trying to tell u that if u just had a good front stage u wouldnt need the "rear" fill. Obviously u havnt heard a good front stage. I'm glad that ur happy with what u got, but the point we'r trying to make is that the rear fill is pointless.

Actually you're trying to tell him what HIS ears like, which isn't possible. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

Have you ever heard a high end SQ car, like one that can actually compete and place well in a SQ comp? It's an experience, I can tell you that. It's simialar to setting in front of high end HT gear, not the 5.1 stuff, but actual music oriented gear. There's a very good reason people want their cars to sound like that, simply put, a daily driver is designed to play music. SQ cars are designed to play music well.

Never had the chance, but actually have little desire to either. I'm VERY happy with what I put together in my car. I'm not on the neverending search like most seem to be. Does mine sound like the SQ car you mentioned, not hardly, but it puts a smile on my face everytime I listen and that's all that matters.

I have a pretty nice HT set up with 6 Klipsch Legends and 4 Tempests, but don't listen to 2 channel music all that much. Perhaps another reason I prefer being engulfed in the sound at times.

It just seems like a LOT of guys offer advice under the pretense that EVERYONE wants a competition SQ car, when all they really want is decent DD SQL, which is a much easier goal to achieve.

 

[///M5 10+ year member]

Never had the chance, but actually have little desire to either. I'm VERY happy with what I put together in my car. I'm not on the neverending search like most seem to be. Does mine sound like the SQ car you mentioned, not hardly, but it puts a smile on my face everytime I listen and that's all that matters.
I have a pretty nice HT set up with 6 Klipsch Legends and 4 Tempests, but don't listen to 2 channel music all that much. Perhaps another reason I prefer being engulfed in the sound at times.

It just seems like a LOT of guys offer advice under the pretense that EVERYONE wants a competition SQ car, when all they really want is decent DD SQL, which is a much easier goal to achieve.

I couldn't disagree more. What I see is a lot of people recommending rear fill to add volume and give perceived surround sound. The truth is that more than 99% of these people have never sat in a truly well tuned front stage only vehicle. They all have rear fill and like it, but have never compared the two. Part of the problem with any advice over the internet is that everyone regurgitates some crap that someone else has told them, I think that is complete BS. I don't think this is even subjective...at least not to a mildly educated listener. How many high end home audio stores have you been to where they recommend running four speakers for playing back 2 channel audio? It NEVER happens yet in the car audio world everyday someone has to push this belief on other people. The real answer is to spend sometime in your car insuring that you have done the most to maximize your staging and response.

I do agree that you should do whatever makes you happy, but when the basis of a statement is that it sounds better with rear fill it is just wrong. I will stand by my previous statement and say that a car has an install problem if 2 channel audio sounds better with added rear fill.