Another Reason For Rear Fill...

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

Most "mainstream" music is 2 Channel--- BUT, most music is also recorded with multiple microphones (and frequently on seperate tracks) that are mastered to produce the sound(s) we listen to today. So there is spatial recordings meant to simulate, or in the case of a non-mainstream artist, even release with multiple channel information to better enhance the listening experience. Mannheim Steamroller has released Hi Def Cd's that are amazing--

Caution: you are about to go outside of your reality and experience new age creativity: http://dev.shop-amgram.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AG&Category_Code=MCD5

another interesting thing I noticed...those that adamantely (s?) argue about front sound stage only, are mostly Pickup Truck Owners. hmmmmmm???

I own a pick up...whats your point?

I record and produce music. I wouldnt even begin to attempt any rear fill implmentation unless it was a video. Music is left and right. No front or rear.

You ever been to a concert? Where are the artists on stage? In front? You ever notice where the PA is located? In front to the left and right.

Music can be manipulated how ever you want...but it will never deviate from left and right. Not front to back. If I was at a concert and the artist was behind me then maybe it would be OK...but it doesnt happen like that now does it?

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

Where is the rear speakers to setup the rear fill?

Rear fill is all in your head for anything that isnt recorded in 5.1 (99% of which is video).

 

[DsrtJeeper 10+ year member]

I own a pick up...whats your point?
I record and produce music. I wouldnt even begin to attempt any rear fill implmentation unless it was a video. Music is left and right. No front or rear.

You ever been to a concert? Where are the artists on stage? In front? You ever notice where the PA is located? In front to the left and right.

Music can be manipulated how ever you want...but it will never deviate from left and right. Not front to back. If I was at a concert and the artist was behind me then maybe it would be OK...but it doesnt happen like that now does it?

You are comparing two different things here. Live music and recorded music. Live music gives off many more cues do to speaker placement, reverb, echo and early reflections. This often gives off a fuller sound that many attribute to the real thing. Ever notice how a recording ***** compared to the live event?

One of the most elusive aspects of tuning a home audio system is trying to achieve the "you are there" feeling. It's not any different in car audio. If rear fill helps you achieve that sense of being there; is it a bad thing? To each their own....

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

... OP said that he was listening to fm radio... that there proves it was all in his head. he was listening to music in 'stereo'

and of course women like renee are pro rear fill. i would like all women to be.

no pickup truck for me and no rear fill for me.

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

You are comparing two different things here. Live music and recorded music. Live music gives off many more cues do to speaker placement, reverb, echo and early reflections. This often gives off a fuller sound that many attribute to the real thing. Ever notice how a recording ***** compared to the live event?
One of the most elusive aspects of tuning a home audio system is trying to achieve the "you are there" feeling. It's not any different in car audio. If rear fill helps you achieve that sense of being there; is it a bad thing? To each their own....

Not comparing...using two seperate examples.

There is no rear fill in recording or live performances for 99% of all music...video maybe to achieve the "you are there" feeling you speak of.

As you said, to each his own...I choose to not use it.

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

The poor man's studio..."The Barn" I would give anything to have the money the above studio's have...

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

The poor man's studio..."The Barn" I would give anything to have the money the above studio's have...

yours?

 

[Calikid 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/word.gif.64b12e39f936af3b4fff38a1c0bd0244.gif

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

yours?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[SkwurlyFab 10+ year member]

Girls in the back of my 4runner like that they can still hear the words as well as have a full body massage. Rear fill is very worth it to me:naughty:

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

Girls in the back of my 4runner like that they can still hear the words as well as have a full body massage. Rear fill is very worth it to me:naughty:

I have been in the 3rd row of a Youkon XL with 2 15" RE SEs and could still hear the words VERY clearly and just we well staged as if I was up front. There was no rear fill //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[DsrtJeeper 10+ year member]

Not comparing...using two seperate examples.
There is no rear fill in recording or live performances for 99% of all music...video maybe to achieve the "you are there" feeling you speak of.

As you said, to each his own...I choose to not use it.

I never said there is rear fill in a live performance. I elluded to the spacial cues of a live performance that can't often be correctly duplicated by a automobile's two channel setup. Limitations exist in the small interiors.

You mention that the band is infront of the listener at a concert. What about the audience? If you are mid row; there will be sounds from behind as well. All sounds within the concert hall give it it's feeling and adds to more for your senses to process. Rear fill can fool the brain into feeling that there is sound eminating from all angles. Home theatre 5.1 and 7.1 are successful for a reason. I'm a 2 channel person myself, but can see both sides of the discussion. Of course; all is dependant on recording technique, micing process, mixing and the intent of the artist.

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

I never said there is rear fill in a live performance. I elluded to the spacial cues of a live performance that can't often be correctly duplicated by a automobile's two channel setup. Limitations exist in the small interiors.
You mention that the band is infront of the listener at a concert. What about the audience? If you are mid row; there will be sounds from behind as well. All sounds within the concert hall give it it's feeling and adds to more for your senses to process. Rear fill can fool the brain into feeling that there is sound eminating from all angles. Home theatre 5.1 and 7.1 are successful for a reason. I'm a 2 channel person myself, but can see both sides of the discussion. Of course; all is dependant on recording technique, micing process, mixing and the intent of the artist.

I see where you are at and I see where you are going with your replies.

However, with rear fill you wont get any additions to the "feel" department you speak of with the addition to the audience behind you with out major sacrifice in depth. They usually dont mic the croud. Most of the sounds you hear audience wise comes from the lead vocal mics. On accation, yes they do mic the audience...

But with the addition of rear fill all you are going is reproducing the front left in the rear left and the same on the right. This may add to the audience feel, but you are also sacrificing your staging and depth. Your rear fill is going to pull the staging tword your lap or the center of the car. This is a bad thing. In all the boards, mixers, and computer software none have any rear settings (EXCEPT 5.1 AND 7.1 RECORDING). Its all left and right pan. There for either with recording live music or in studio you cant truely get the feel of being in the center row middle of a concert.

I do agree that this is where 5.1 and 7.1 is key to getting that full live feel. As they CAN reproduce this, the problem is how many CD's out there use this recorging method? I'd bet very, very slim numbers. This is why I stated that for video, where you would definatly want 5.1 or 7.1, it is a good thing.

 

[DsrtJeeper 10+ year member]

I see where you are at and I see where you are going with your replies.
However, with rear fill you wont get any additions to the "feel" department you speak of with the addition to the audience behind you with out major sacrifice in depth. They usually dont mic the croud. Most of the sounds you hear audience wise comes from the lead vocal mics. On accation, yes they do mic the audience...

But with the addition of rear fill all you are going is reproducing the front left in the rear left and the same on the right. This may add to the audience feel, but you are also sacrificing your staging and depth. Your rear fill is going to pull the staging tword your lap or the center of the car. This is a bad thing. In all the boards, mixers, and computer software none have any rear settings (EXCEPT 5.1 AND 7.1 RECORDING). Its all left and right pan. There for either with recording live music or in studio you cant truely get the feel of being in the center row middle of a concert.

I do agree that this is where 5.1 and 7.1 is key to getting that full live feel. As they CAN reproduce this, the problem is how many CD's out there use this recorging method? I'd bet very, very slim numbers. This is why I stated that for video, where you would definatly want 5.1 or 7.1, it is a good thing.

Agreed and why I'm a 2 channel listener. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Now if I could get my car audio to sound as nice as my home audio....Gotta love vacuum tubes and Canadian speakers.

 

[Suomi 10+ year member]

wasn't / didn't Eclipse put out a full 5.1 mobile system?

I have seen a few mobile systems that were 5.1 capable. I've just never seen one that could play SACDs. I own quite a few SACDs for my home system, and they sound incredible, so I wish I could play them in my car. I've heard some mobile DVD-Audio systems which sounded pretty nice. The bit-rate from DVD-A and SACD music blows CDs out of the water.