alpine vs. pioneer

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Not an expert on the old Alpines so I can't really comment on them. However I've had a 9883, a 9884, and a 9886. The main difference for the money between the 9883 and 9884 was IMPRINT capability. The main difference between the 9884 and 9886 other than 'fluff' seemed to be the voltage output. As far as I can tell pretty much everything in that line is substantially the same in terms of meaningful features (but with different price points) until you get to the 9887. It comes with time alignment, active mode, and 5/7 band EQ BUILT IN. Everything below it requires you to get IMPRINT in order to have that and more. I believe this new structuring of the product line is specifically done this way because Alpine doesn't just want to sell true audiophiles a head unit any more, they want IMPRINT kits flying off the shelves too. You can settle for the 'Best Buy' stuff or you can pony up another 100 or 150 bucks if you want more and another 1-200 bucks for the bluetooth module. They want to force you to pay for features on top of the head unit that other manufacturers are building in.
I too am now into Pioneers and Eclipses. You pay your money, you have the choice get your tuning features built into the head unit and you have the choice of deciding how a head unit with decent features sounds for you before you introduce a separate processor into the mix. With Alpine you get nothing more than over glorified bass and treble boosts (AKA bass engine and 2 band graphic EQ)

My pioneer premier DEH 980BT is 5 volts/channel, has Bluetooth built in, IPOD controls, time alignment built in, and 13 EQ with multiple savable pre-sets built in for the same price that I'd have to pay for a 9887. Alot of people here who talk about how much they love Alpine are dealing with stuff that isn't actually manufactured anymore, or just got hooked on the name because of how good it was back in the day. IMHO if you're really serious about this stuff and you're an SQ person there's nothing in their new line worth buying below the 9887 but quite a few things that aren't made anymore that are worth snapping up if you can find them.

very well put. i've been doing a lot of reading on the manufacturer's websites and i've come to the same conclusion about alpine compaired to other brands.

my 800prs came in a couple of days ago and my ipod adapter cam in yesterday so i'll be putting it in probably tomorrow, maybe tuesday. i'll stop back here and let you all know what i think of it compaired to my alpine that i'm taking out.

by the way, that alpine is going to be replacing the 9853 i've got in my jimmy. i may be selling the 9853 so if anyone's interested, send me a pm with an offer. i'm not sure yet if i wanna let it go, but a good offer may pursuade me.

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Awesome hu. Definitely sounds better than my ALPINE I took out. I can tell a difference at all volume levels. The only thing that gets me is the beep. I can't figure out how to turn it off. If anyone knows, please let me know. Other than that, everything is easy to control and adjust. I highly recommend it to anyone.

 

[xx24xx 10+ year member]

Apple is pretty much the mainstream standard of audio these days. Let's face it, iPods are just incredibly convenient. I own the 9887 and let me tell you, I love the functionality of it. I can search by name, artist, playlist etc. Think of it this way ... how often will you be playing music from your iPod vs. CD, USB, etc.

The Eclipse is a different story. My local installer simply put it as, "its a POS pain in the azz". He is referring to the iPod funtion. The CD7200 is taking a leap forward with a HU built for SQ. But they screwed up a lot of things too. The screen is tiny and extremely hard to read. It has a "plastic" feel to the entire face. I don't even think it accepts AACs. For $550 I passed. Hopefully with their new units they will have fixed their iPod problem. (IE 726e)

Pioneer is cool, but it seems they aren't up to speed. Alpine 9887 is a big leap ahead of them with sq, provided you buy the add ons. I've read a lot of reviews regarding the Imprint. It seems like people who know how to install and have experience staging really like it. Of course the exact specs the software gives aren't going to be spot on. Thats when you tweak it a little bit until your ears decide on perfect. Alpine 9887+Imprint=less $ than 7200.

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

Apple is pretty much the mainstream standard of audio these days. Let's face it, iPods are just incredibly convenient. I own the 9887 and let me tell you, I love the functionality of it. I can search by name, artist, playlist etc. Think of it this way ... how often will you be playing music from your iPod vs. CD, USB, etc.
The Eclipse is a different story. My local installer simply put it as, "its a POS pain in the azz". He is referring to the iPod funtion. The CD7200 is taking a leap forward with a HU built for SQ. But they screwed up a lot of things too. The screen is tiny and extremely hard to read. It has a "plastic" feel to the entire face. I don't even think it accepts AACs. For $550 I passed. Hopefully with their new units they will have fixed their iPod problem. (IE 726e)

Pioneer is cool, but it seems they aren't up to speed. Alpine 9887 is a big leap ahead of them with sq, provided you buy the add ons. I've read a lot of reviews regarding the Imprint. It seems like people who know how to install and have experience staging really like it. Of course the exact specs the software gives aren't going to be spot on. Thats when you tweak it a little bit until your ears decide on perfect. Alpine 9887+Imprint=less $ than 7200.

I agree, although I have always been an Alpine customer. I have just never found another manufacturer's HU that I would like as much as Alpine. I own a 9887 as well and have for about 2 years. I absolutely love it. And my main reason for purchasing it was the Imprint software, so if some think that is just slick marketing, well, I guess I fell for it. But it works!

I spent A LOT of time tuning the system manually using the 9887 and its built-in parametric equalizer. I got everything where I thought it sounded the best over the course of several months (I was waiting for the actual Imprint package to be released - they were selling the HU BEFORE the **** Imprint software/hardware was even available) and then when the Imprint was released I bought it. ****, what a difference!

My manual settings came across as VERY harsh compared to the Imprint result. It takes some learnin' to know how to set the amps and such before running the software, and a little trial and error is typically in order. That Alpine's documentation is a bit lacking in some areas is an understatement. I could probably publish a few pages on DO's and DON'T's with regards to Imprint, but my present settings I am very happy with.

I know a lot of people push Pioneer, and as I don't really have any experience with them, I'll leave that for others. Suffice it to say, I love my Alpine CDA-9887. I will agree with some though that if you are going to go with Alpine, stick with the 9887. Anything below that is not going to be worth the $$$. IMHO. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

I could probably publish a few pages on DO's and DON'T's with regards to Imprint...

How about just a few concise tips?

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

How about just a few concise tips?

OK, OK. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

One of the biggest gripes with Imprint is how it can mess with your bass. If you follow the manual and either turn the gain "below normal" or all the way down, yes, you bass is gonna be affected after running the software. Plus, the documentation is not too specific about setting the crossover and subsonic filter/bass boost if you have that option.

So, here's what I do based on my Alpine PDX 1.600 (also note that is based on my CDA-9887 HU - not sure what other Alpine models use this same software and their (HU) RCA output voltage may differ):

Gain Setting: Right in the middle, dead center.

Input Gain Selector Switch: 0.1V-1.0V

X-Over Frequency Adjustment (LP Filter): Dead center, 100Hz

Subsonic Filter: Off

As for my amp driving my front and rear component Polks (Alpine PDX 4.100):

Gain Setting: Nominal (dead center)

Filter: Off

X-Over Frequency Adjustment: I leave these set to the lowest freq. my front and rear woofers can reproduce.

As for the HU itself, I make sure the Bass, Treble and Sub settings for each source is set to flat (0)...for the Sub setting I make sure it's in the middle, or 7 or 8. I'm not 100% sure it matters, but just to be safe.

I then run the program for left front (that'd be for the driver position - me!) and I then make sure that all 6 locations are measured. This will take about 40-45 minutes to complete. I then download both curves.

Once completed I had to adjust the gains on my Alpine PDX 4.100 down a bit but left everything else as is.

For my PDX 1.600 I set the x-over to about 140Hz and the subsonic filter to 15Hz. I also crank the gain to about 3/4. I have measured the AC output at the speaker outs on the amp and about 3/4 volume (which is about as loud as I can tolerate) and it gets to about 24V max at some real deep bass points with some reference music. I like tight and punchy bass. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

That's about it. I'm happy with the setup, the soundstage is perfect and the freq. curve really gets nicely smoothed out.

Like I said, pay special attention to your bass amp settings if you don't want the software to really wash out your bass when you are done the measurements. Otherwise you have to run the measurements all over again with different settings (like I did to get the correct results) which can be a real pain in the ***! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

Hope this helps!

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Apple is pretty much the mainstream standard of audio these days

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/sick.gif.b1847c8dabbfeeddbcf1a78052249e10.gif

Although I agree.

 

[nineball 10+ year member]

Apple is pretty much the mainstream standard of portable audio playback devices these days.

fixed

 

[FJF 10+ year member]

OK, OK. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Perhaps I'm missing a piece of information, but I've always thought that Imprint configures the x-over settings as a part of its operation. If it does, it would make sense to run the amps full-range.

FWIW, I have a 9887 in an active system. The only adjustment I've made on the amps is the SSF on the sub (amplifier), and gain, of course. The HU is used for everything else. I'd love to hear what Imprint can do vs my tune.

 

[AlterEgo99 5,000+ posts]

My PDX 4.100 was pretty much set to full range but I have found that setting the sub amp to full range kills some of the bass after Imprint has completed its tuning...not sure why but that has been my experience.