advice for amp purchase please...

[DarkScorpion 10+ year member]

I know the original thread is about amplifiers, but a spin-off question would be about the subs you spoke of. But how do I calculate the ohms/watts of the subwoofer to be sure I have the correct amplifier. I know I'm supposed to look at the sub RMS and be sure its less than the amp wattage, but if I have 2 subs then do I double that?
As far as a 2 subwoofer ported box, is this something that can just be bought generically. So 2 subs would need 4.0 cubic feet inside, sorry for being so naive. Thank you though!

Truthfully, you shouldn't pay attention to the manufacturer's ratings. They give those ratings as a blanket statement so people don't screw things up - if everything is done correctly, a single type-r can handle up to 1000w RMS and sound great. As for wiring up your subs, here's a good place to start:

The 12 Volt

You'll find a plethora information there, covering most of the basics. I suggest you read up before you make any purchases. Here's the calculator you'll need to figure out the various ways to wire up a subwoofer. Just so you know, most subs can be bought as dual 4ohm voice coils, dual 2ohm, or dual 1ohm. You shouldn't need to measure anything as the subwoofer will either say right on the box or in the model number what configuration it is. The Alpine SWR-1222D is dual 2ohm, and the SWR-1242D is dual4ohm, for example.

When choosing an amp, you have to be aware of what subs you'll be choosing to go with it. Not all amplifiers are 1ohm stable. So if you get an amp that's NOT 1ohm stable (all the ones I previously listed are 1ohm stable) and you get a pair of dual 4ohm subs, your only option will be to wire it up for a final load of 4ohms, robbing your system of power (unless you're purely going for a SQ setup, which is a completely different issue).

Edit: Sorry, I didn't fully answer your question about how much power each sub gets when you hook up a pair. Basically, each sub will get half of the power the amp puts out. Say you have an amp that puts out 1000w at 1ohms. If you wire up a pair of dual 4ohm subs in parallel, you will effectively have a 1ohm load. That means each sub will then get 500w, just split right down the middle. Make sense?

 

[CarAudioNewbie9 10+ year member]

Truthfully, you shouldn't pay attention to the manufacturer's ratings. They give those ratings as a blanket statement so people don't screw things up - if everything is done correctly, a single type-r can handle up to 1000w RMS and sound great. As for wiring up your subs, here's a good place to start:
The 12 Volt

You'll find a plethora information there, covering most of the basics. I suggest you read up before you make any purchases. Here's the calculator you'll need to figure out the various ways to wire up a subwoofer. Just so you know, most subs can be bought as dual 4ohm voice coils, dual 2ohm, or dual 1ohm. You shouldn't need to measure anything as the subwoofer will either say right on the box or in the model number what configuration it is. The Alpine SWR-1222D is dual 2ohm, and the SWR-1242D is dual4ohm, for example.

When choosing an amp, you have to be aware of what subs you'll be choosing to go with it. Not all amplifiers are 1ohm stable. So if you get an amp that's NOT 1ohm stable (all the ones I previously listed are 1ohm stable) and you get a pair of dual 4ohm subs, your only option will be to wire it up for a final load of 4ohms, robbing your system of power (unless you're purely going for a SQ setup, which is a completely different issue).

I doubt a Type R can take 1000 RMS daily. That's a little steep for their 12's. A Type R 15 might be able to.

 

[DarkScorpion 10+ year member]

I doubt a Type R can take 1000 RMS daily. That's a little steep for their 12's. A Type R 15 might be able to.

1000w sustained, probably not. But 1000w dynamic (meaning playing music), easily. Then factor in box rise etc, and you're fine.

 

[CarAudioNewbie9 10+ year member]

True true. I was gonna say....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif

 

[Maxipads 10+ year member]

I doubt a Type R can take 1000 RMS daily. That's a little steep for their 12's. A Type R 15 might be able to.

Mine does...

but dgates12 I purchased 2 12" SWR-1242D, the 4Ohm version for 250 for both brand new on ebay. I got my amp a BXi 1210d rated at 1200 @ 1 Ohm for around 130. You have a vast amount of options with 250 for one amp. I purchased my two subs, amp, and a custom box for around 450. Just please be sure that if you buy the Alpine Type R 12 inch subs you get the SWR-1242D if you buy one of the amps DarkScorpion listed, if you buy the SWR-1222D you will "rob" like Dark said your system of power because you cannot wire it to 1 Ohm. And once you purchase your subs and amp someone on here can build you a box made perfectly to fit into your trunk and correlate with your amp and sub.

 

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

Hmm, 1000rms on an alpine r 12 on a daily? Im not saying its impossible, but that has to be the absolute limit for one

 

[Maxipads 10+ year member]

ill say ive smelled some coil a few times on Bass i love you but thats about it. i usually stick with my 500 RMS each on 2 Type R's though

 

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

I love the smell of voice coil //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif my buddies and I got a joke that your not slappin if your voice coils arent smoking ...lol

 

[Maxipads 10+ year member]

WHat? that smell is annoying it gets stuck in your nostrils and it lingerss lol

 

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

^ hahah true...for some subs if you smell it its already too late tho. I had a crappy lanzar 12 (40$ junk) and i started smelling coil for about 3 seconds before it blew. I stopped and popped my trunk and smoke was seeping out of the port...That sub was supposed to be 380rms, and got blown by about a solid 350 rms on the daily...My memphis m3, i always smelled coil when i slapped really hard. never blew or nothing..there in lies the difference between a 40$ sub and a 250$ sub

 

[sniper5431 10+ year member]

I am going to throw some complete wrench in the road. If this guys main attraction is SQ why are we pushing 2-12s and tons of wattage at 1 ohm? Shouldn't we advice him the correct way to set up a sound stage?

1) Tell us what kind of deck your son is running.

2) what kind of speakers are you running up front?

3) What kind of amp are you running up front?

4) What kind of car is this going in?

5)Have you thought of sound deadening?

6) What are his listening tastes?

7) You planning on doing any processing?

All of these issues come into play.

Looks like all of you are pushing SPL burp machines. If you are going to educate him. Save him from building a burp machine if he is into SQ.

Gentleman appears to want to learn. Educate him.

Answering these questions will help everyone know exactly what your goals are. Yet, will give us some insight on what can be done with your car and equipment.

 

[mclerico83 5,000+ posts]

2 Elemental Designs 13Ov2 subwoofer 600 watt Dual 4 Ohm - eBay (item 220559694575 end time Mar-01-10 19:25:51 PST)

would look at these over the type r's

or

(2) PHOENIX GOLD RSDC124 12" 1200w COMPETITION CAR SUB - eBay (item 350313587049 end time Mar-07-10 07:25:43 PST)

or

Audioque: Street Duty: SDC2.5

amp wise the mb quart 1500.1 is a great budget amp

NEW 2009 MB Quart DSC1500.1D 1500w RMS D-Class Mono AMP - eBay (item 360233056855 end time Mar-09-10 08:53:01 PST)

SAE-1200Dv1 Refurbished Clearance B-Stock [sAE-1200D-RB] - $150.00 : dB-r Electronics, Online Store

amazing amp

 

[DarkScorpion 10+ year member]

I am going to throw some complete wrench in the road. If this guys main attraction is SQ why are we pushing 2-12s and tons of wattage at 1 ohm? Shouldn't we advice him the correct way to set up a sound stage? 1) Tell us what kind of deck your son is running.

2) what kind of speakers are you running up front?

3) What kind of amp are you running up front?

4) What kind of car is this going in?

5)Have you thought of sound deadening?

6) What are his listening tastes?

7) You planning on doing any processing?

All of these issues come into play.

Looks like all of you are pushing SPL burp machines. If you are going to educate him. Save him from building a burp machine if he is into SQ.

Gentleman appears to want to learn. Educate him.

Answering these questions will help everyone know exactly what your goals are. Yet, will give us some insight on what can be done with your car and equipment.

He didn't say his son is into SQ, he said he is. Unless his kid is over 20 years old, it's almost impossible for them to truly appreciate a high end SQ set-up. Also, he said he's looking for great bang for buck, a subwoofer which the Type-R fits VERY well. Most of the questions you just asked have either been partially answered, or implied by his limited budget - no appreciable amount of processing can be accomplished with a budget of $400 that encompasses subwoofer, amp, AND the processor, unless you're settling for a 3sixty.1 and a single sub set-up.

Also, he said that while he believes a single set-up would suffice, his son wants a dual 12" set-up, indicating he still hasn't moved out of the phase that more is better. It's incredibly hard to tell young people the benefits of an SQ setup over an SPL setup; like I said, the type-R sounds decent as far as SQ is concerned and gets loud while being cheap and remaining a very recognizable brand. No, not all of us are SPL burp machines as you put it, but many of us know where there is a good comprimise between said burp machine and an all out, flower-power SQ set-up like you seem to want to give him.

 

[sniper5431 10+ year member]

You are exactly right. You answered his questions to a "T" . My point was. That you and I can enlighten him to spending his money on where it should be spent. Yes, a young teenager will always want tons of boom. Therefore, tons of wattage to the base section is preferred instead of pure music quality. (yes I like the R's) I sense that a father that takes the time to learn through car audio forums instead of just running to the store and giving the kid want he wants. He truly has more of an interest in the outcome of this particular builds than most fathers. With that being said., We could all do him a favor by asking the questions we would ask if it were our son's car. Personally I am not a fan of any processing. I believe if done right, processing is not needed. I have to tell the OP from experience that if you show him an overall better sounding car. He will enjoy that more in the end.

 

[DarkScorpion 10+ year member]

You are exactly right. You answered his questions to a "T" . My point was. That you and I can enlighten him to spending his money on where it should be spent. Yes, a young teenager will always want tons of boom. Therefore, tons of wattage to the base section is preferred instead of pure music quality. (yes I like the R's) I sense that a father that takes the time to learn through car audio forums instead of just running to the store and giving the kid want he wants. He truly has more of an interest in the outcome of this particular builds than most fathers. With that being said., We could all do him a favor by asking the questions we would ask if it were our son's car. Personally I am not a fan of any processing. I believe if done right, processing is not needed. I have to tell the OP from experience that if you show him an overall better sounding car. He will enjoy that more in the end.

Agreed. In that case, we'll definitely need to know what the kids musical preferences are aside from just the father's. OP, think you can convince your son to go with a single 12" setup? There a lot of nice choices out there that will sound much better sound quality-wise compared to a pair of type-R's while still providing lots of boom.