8" Door Speakers in a MK7 Golf SportWagen

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Looking at the vibe audio black death speaker I posted again and comparing them to the sundowns they are built in a similar fashion, monster magnets, rear vent, and ask for lots of power 100watt minimum they just have a shallower mounting depth. I'm guessing the vex 8 has a larger magnet and it does say it has a 3" voice coil vs a 1.7" on the vibe unit, these probably contribute to the higher rms rating on the sundowns.

Isnt a 3 db gain a doubling in volume?

You also said you wouldnt run a pa style component setup, could you please explain why.

The vibe does have a large motor structure but the suspension is designed to me low xmax meaning low excursion. It also doesn't help that they don't produce tsp parameters for them at least not to be easily found.

3db is considered the smallest amount of volume gain a person can notice. 6db is easily notice and considered a fairly large change, 10db is considered doubling the output.

And pro audio midranges are made to play mid range frequencies. That's obvious, our ears pick up midrange frequencies much better than any other frequency range. That's why it's naturally easier to understand a man talking over a small child or even a feminine woman.

Since our ears are really sensitive to that frequency range it is not uncommon for us to cut the mid range down in volume or boost the high end and low end to make everything sound level in volume.

This often equates to an equalizer looking like a smiling face.

For me with my tinnitus extra loud midrange is even more so offensive to my ears. And while I know I can cut it down with an eq it's just easier to use speakers that don't spike the offending speaker range.

You can also look at frequency response graphs and see than most midrange speakers don't exactly play very smoothly, with a frequency response looking like jagged teeth. This isn't exact good for a sq build.

But at the end of the day it's more about your specific preferences than anything else. To me pa style speakers are just for getting loud in the vocal range and pa style tweeters I don't like personally.

 

[Darthyota]

Ts parameters are in the owners manual, you have to download it under the support tab. I screen shot it and attached it so you dont have tonhunt for it

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

Ts parameters are in the owners manual, you have to download it under the support tab. I screen shot it and attached it so you dont have tonhunt for it

The Black Deaths are loud midrange speakers. They'll be loud in midrange with weak midbass output unless you port them. They are PA speakers designed to fill large areas with sound. PA speakers tend to sound like arse in small enclosed spaces. Their ragged response will be exaggerated in the car audio environment.

If you port them and have a stereo 1/3rd octave eq and know how to tune, then you can pull them off. Building a ported enclosure into a door is advanced level stuff and hard to get right. You could try running the Black Deaths infinite baffle crossed at ~150hz.

I think you're probably better off with a hifi type speaker. Depends on what you want: loudness or SQ & low-end extension.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Ts parameters are in the owners manual, you have to download it under the support tab. I screen shot it and attached it so you dont have tonhunt for itView attachment 44772

Fs of 102hz is enough to say you aren't getting bass out of them a 93db spl efficiency rating means they will be very efficient and loud in their preferred frequency range.

Efficient is great when you want to get loud but they aren't balanced speakers when it comes to frequency response

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

The high efficiency and high fs is due to a light undamaged cone, which contributes to that awful "hot" sound you get from PA speakers. There’s enough of that crap in the car audio environment as it is.

 

[Darthyota]

Fs of 102hz is enough to say you aren't getting bass out of them a 93db spl efficiency rating means they will be very efficient and loud in their preferred frequency range.

Efficient is great when you want to get loud but they aren't balanced speakers when it comes to frequency response

The high efficiency and high fs is due to a light undamaged cone, which contributes to that awful "hot" sound you get from PA speakers. There’s enough of that crap in the car audio environment as it is.

So that kick me back to the big money morels as the should be more balanced as they are an audiophile speaker

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

The guy wants bass from door speakers those aren't gonna come even close to bass ranges. Closest midrange that can dig deep is likely the sundown vex8.

If your so interested in the pioneers just buy them to try it's just 75bucks. We all know the db drives are stupid loud midranges

Ok genius. Then why did he post this speaker as his option one? Is that a sub? Please enlighten me.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

The guy wants bass from door speakers those aren't gonna come even close to bass ranges. Closest midrange that can dig deep is likely the sundown vex8.

If your so interested in the pioneers just buy them to try it's just 75bucks. We all know the db drives are stupid loud midranges

I've ran both speakers Einstein. Have you got some sort of beef with me that I don't know about?

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

The guy wants bass from door speakers those aren't gonna come even close to bass ranges. Closest midrange that can dig deep is likely the sundown vex8.

If your so interested in the pioneers just buy them to try it's just 75bucks. We all know the db drives are stupid loud midranges

WTF are db drives?

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

The vibe does have a large motor structure but the suspension is designed to me low xmax meaning low excursion. It also doesn't help that they don't produce tsp parameters for them at least not to be easily found.

3db is considered the smallest amount of volume gain a person can notice. 6db is easily notice and considered a fairly large change, 10db is considered doubling the output.

And pro audio midranges are made to play mid range frequencies. That's obvious, our ears pick up midrange frequencies much better than any other frequency range. That's why it's naturally easier to understand a man talking over a small child or even a feminine woman.

Since our ears are really sensitive to that frequency range it is not uncommon for us to cut the mid range down in volume or boost the high end and low end to make everything sound level in volume.

This often equates to an equalizer looking like a smiling face.

For me with my tinnitus extra loud midrange is even more so offensive to my ears. And while I know I can cut it down with an eq it's just easier to use speakers that don't spike the offending speaker range.

You can also look at frequency response graphs and see than most midrange speakers don't exactly play very smoothly, with a frequency response looking like jagged teeth. This isn't exact good for a sq build.

But at the end of the day it's more about your specific preferences than anything else. To me pa style speakers are just for getting loud in the vocal range and pa style tweeters I don't like personally.

And now you're talking about the midrange speakers that he originally posted that I replied to. Do you apologize now or later for coming at me?

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I didn't read this entire thread so my bad if I missed anything important.

I personally run 7" midbass(hertz ML 1800.3) in the doors of my jetta. I can say that without alot of effort, you will have better output from a 6.5 even compared to an 8". The larger drivers are definitely better at playing lower and louder, but you should still be crossing your midbass at 80hz or so unless you have very small and very sealed doors or are running low power.

My midbass have 2"coils(i beleive, could be slightly smaller) and I have 260w per driver available. My doors are taking a serious beating from my midbass. I'm trying to gather materials and whatnot to reinforce my door panel, close up some of the empty space between door panel and door, adding more deadener and sound isolation, and sealing up my door a bit better as well.

The silver flute 6.5's are awesome drivers. If I wasn't running my current driver(or the 1650.3) I would be running the silver flutes. IF you have the mounting depth and diameter to run a true 8" midbass and can really seal up/deaden your doors there are virtually no downsides if you can fit them. But the improvement over a good 6.5" is rather small for the amount of extra work you have to do.

Matt

 

[Jimi77 5,000+ posts]

So that kick me back to the big money morels as the should be more balanced as they are an audiophile speaker

Doesn't have to be big money. I'd just avoid PA speakers. Check out CDT.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

And now you're talking about the midrange speakers that he originally posted that I replied to. Do you apologize now or later for coming at me?

Dude who the hell is coming for you? Deaf bounce/db drive ever think that somebody is multitasking and misreads, or misnames something.

He asked about pa mids out of ignorance that's why I'm pushing him away from them. It's not what he really wants he was just ignorant to what the difference is.

We know you like your Arnold's just like I like my flutes but then you go and ask a bunch of questions about the pioneers, hell you have a whole thread asking about them that you started. Why ask questions if you have run them?

As one of a few active members on this forum don't take the victim mentality. Active members get tagged and called out fairly often for explanations and corrections. No need to get into feeling overs something so foolish.

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Dude who the hell is coming for you? Deaf bounce/db drive ever think that somebody is multitasking and misreads, or misnames something.

He asked about pa mids out of ignorance that's why I'm pushing him away from them. It's not what he really wants he was just ignorant to what the difference is.

We know you like your Arnold's just like I like my flutes but then you go and ask a bunch of questions about the pioneers, hell you have a whole thread asking about them that you started. Why ask questions if you have run them?

As one of a few active members on this forum don't take the victim mentality. Active members get tagged and called out fairly often for explanations and corrections. No need to get into feeling overs something so foolish.

Did he say he subwoofer bass from his doors? He posted links to midbass and PA speakers. I gave him a couple of better options for similar type speakers. Should I have told him to build pods for 6½" subs in his doors? I don't know what your beef is with me. I didn't see you call anybody else out. If you want to roll then we can roll kid. I've done it many times before. I've said it over and over that I refused to be bullied. I've given multiple my home address. I don't give two fukks kid. You can take your bully shitt elsewhere. Let me know if you want to keep rolling? I'm game.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Did he say he subwoofer bass from his doors? He posted links to midbass and PA speakers. I gave him a couple of better options for similar type speakers. Should I have told him to build pods for 6½" subs in his doors? I don't know what your beef is with me. I didn't see you call anybody else out. If you want to roll then we can roll kid. I've done it many times before. I've said it over and over that I refused to be bullied. I've given multiple my home address. I don't give two fukks kid. You can take your bully shitt elsewhere. Let me know if you want to keep rolling? I'm game.

Taken word for word from the very first post, literally copy and paste

"I'm looking for a setup where i can get away with not always running a subwoofer as I often need the car space that a non discrete enclosure subwoofer takes up."

Go on and roll elsewhere Idc