8" Door Speakers in a MK7 Golf SportWagen

[Darthyota]

Theres not a ton of options out there but I've found two maybe three that I like. Ones a big money morel setup the other is a reasonably priced pa style speaker. Looking for some advice as I would be purchasing without actually listing to either potential setup first.
Option one:
Vibe audio UK BlackDeath 8 Inch Pro Audio Midrange with a tweeter, probably the matching 4.5" compression driver.

https://vibeaudio.co.uk/product/blackdeath-8-inch-pro-audio-midrange

https://vibeaudio.co.uk/product/bdpro4t-v0-compression-horn-driver

Option two:
Morel Elate Carbon 3-way

Elate Carbon 3-Way ELATE CARBON Systems - Morel Hifi

Elate Carbon 3-Way 35045-3W The Elate Carbon shares most of its high-end componentry with its Pro Morel Hifi

www.morelhifi.com

Option three:
Some sort of 3-way set up using the audi frog GS8ND2 Shallow Woofer

GS8ND2 Shallow Woofer/Subwoofer - Audiofrog

Previous Next Overview Features Technical Details Downloads Overview The GS8ND2 is designed as a small and shallow subwoofer to be used in a sealed enclosure as small as 0.25 cubic […]

www.audiofrog.com

With the mid and tweeter along these lines

GB25 2-1/2” (63 MM) AUDIOPHILE GRADE AUTOMOTIVE LOUDSPEAKER - Audiofrog

Previous Next OVERVIEW FEATURES TECHNICAL DETAILS DOWNLOADS OVERVIEW Designed as a dedicated midrange driver for special applications in 3-way systems, the GB25 is optimized for enclosures as small as […]

www.audiofrog.com

GB15 1 1/2" (38 MM) AUDIOPHILE GRADE AUTOMOTIVE TWEETER - Audiofrog

Previous Next OVERVIEW FEATURES TECHNICAL DETAILS DOWNLOADS OVERVIEW Designed primarily for use with the GB60 as the ultimate 2-way system for kick panel or door installation, the GB15 1-1/2” […]

www.audiofrog.com

I'm looking for a setup where i can get away with not always running a subwoofer as I often need the car space that a non discrete enclosure subwoofer takes up. I also have a 12" kicker q class in a kicker box that I would like to reuse as part of this system.

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[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

The audiofrog 8 isn't really a good midbass from what I'm told more like a mild 8inch sub.

8inch component sets are a rarity but 8inch woofers are not. Madisound and parts express have several options. Purifi also Hasan 8 and 6.5inch midbass that is significant on the bottom end. And stereo integrity tm65mkiv is known to be bass heavy and they are coming out with the tm8 sometime soon.

I personally enjoy my silverflute 6.5s and will try the 8inch version while waiting on the stereo integrity tm8s to release. It's quite amazing the cost to performance value they provide. Granted they aren't going to win sq championships like a few other options but they sound fantastic.

The exodus anarchy mid is another good 3 way option for bass heavy front stage though they are oos right now and might be hard to find.

You couldn't pay me to run a pro audio style 3way setup.

 

[Darthyota]

The audiofrog 8 isn't really a good midbass from what I'm told more like a mild 8inch sub.

8inch component sets are a rarity but 8inch woofers are not. Madisound and parts express have several options. Purifi also Hasan 8 and 6.5inch midbass that is significant on the bottom end. And stereo integrity tm65mkiv is known to be bass heavy and they are coming out with the tm8 sometime soon.

I personally enjoy my silverflute 6.5s and will try the 8inch version while waiting on the stereo integrity tm8s to release. It's quite amazing the cost to performance value they provide. Granted they aren't going to win sq championships like a few other options but they sound fantastic.

The exodus anarchy mid is another good 3 way option for bass heavy front stage though they are oos right now and might be hard to find.

You couldn't pay me to run a pro audio style 3way setup.

The pro audio set up would only be a two way

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

I will say that without proper install and tuning bass out of door speakers is near impossible and you really shouldn't play sub 50hz on most door speakers really sub 80hz is the generally cut out to protect the midbass

2way or 3way I don't touch pro audio style speakers. Thy aren't gonna give you any bass and they are generally ear piercing loud and imho not in a good way

 

[Popwarhomie 5,000+ posts]

Try out the Silverflute 8" or SB acoustics SB23N.

I run PRV 8s in my TC and they actually have some decent midbass for a pro audio driver but not even close to an SQ driver.

I love my Silver flute 6.5s.

 

[Darthyota]

I will say that without proper install and tuning bass out of door speakers is near impossible and you really shouldn't play sub 50hz on most door speakers really sub 80hz is the generally cut out to protect the midbass

2way or 3way I don't touch pro audio style speakers. Thy aren't gonna give you any bass and they are generally ear piercing loud and imho not in a good way

I know i wont get full subwoofer performance out of a mid bass speaker even if it is an 8" cone but i figured it would at least close the gap over a 5"-6" woofer

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

I know i wont get full subwoofer performance out of a mid bass speaker even if it is an 8" cone but i figured it would at least close the gap over a 5"-6" woofer

I mean I can play 28hz on my mids but it's not a sub and the lower I play the muddier it sounds on the top end. Most speakers struggle to play low notes and high notes at the same time. So in order to reduce the distortion we regulate the frequency range to cut bass out of speakers designed to play higher frequencies and we cut the higher frequencies from speakers that start to break up at a certain point.

Just because I can play 28hz doesn't mean it's enjoyable. My install is designed to be midbass heavy but I still only cross at 50hz 24db and that sounds decent enough. I'm running 6.5inch silverflutes. Pictures are in my build log. I want more midbass don't really know why but the next step is going to 8 inch mids and even then I'll still only be crossing at 50hz if the install allows.

You may benifit from running the audiofrog sub in a front sub design on the passenger floor/firewall and let it play 30-100hz in a sealed box.

End of the day playing low with door speakers is really hard. Even the smallest sub systems generally outperform sub 80hz

 

[deez283 10+ year member]

What is your mounting depth?
Do you plan on treating the doors at all?

 

[Darthyota]

Not 100% on mounting depth, I'm sure I'm going to have to space the speaker out from the doors though.

Yes I plan on sound dampening the car

 

[Bobbytwonames 5,000+ posts]

Theres not a ton of options out there but I've found two maybe three that I like. Ones a big money morel setup the other is a reasonably priced pa style speaker. Looking for some advice as I would be purchasing without actually listing to either potential setup first.
Option one:
Vibe audio UK BlackDeath 8 Inch Pro Audio Midrange with a tweeter, probably the matching 4.5" compression driver.

https://vibeaudio.co.uk/product/blackdeath-8-inch-pro-audio-midrange

https://vibeaudio.co.uk/product/bdpro4t-v0-compression-horn-driver

Option two:
Morel Elate Carbon 3-way

Elate Carbon 3-Way ELATE CARBON Systems - Morel Hifi

Elate Carbon 3-Way 35045-3W The Elate Carbon shares most of its high-end componentry with its Pro Morel Hifi

www.morelhifi.com

Option three:
Some sort of 3-way set up using the audi frog GS8ND2 Shallow Woofer

GS8ND2 Shallow Woofer/Subwoofer - Audiofrog

Previous Next Overview Features Technical Details Downloads Overview The GS8ND2 is designed as a small and shallow subwoofer to be used in a sealed enclosure as small as 0.25 cubic […]

www.audiofrog.com

With the mid and tweeter along these lines

GB25 2-1/2” (63 MM) AUDIOPHILE GRADE AUTOMOTIVE LOUDSPEAKER - Audiofrog

Previous Next OVERVIEW FEATURES TECHNICAL DETAILS DOWNLOADS OVERVIEW Designed as a dedicated midrange driver for special applications in 3-way systems, the GB25 is optimized for enclosures as small as […]

www.audiofrog.com

GB15 1 1/2" (38 MM) AUDIOPHILE GRADE AUTOMOTIVE TWEETER - Audiofrog

Previous Next OVERVIEW FEATURES TECHNICAL DETAILS DOWNLOADS OVERVIEW Designed primarily for use with the GB60 as the ultimate 2-way system for kick panel or door installation, the GB15 1-1/2” […]

www.audiofrog.com

I'm looking for a setup where i can get away with not always running a subwoofer as I often need the car space that a non discrete enclosure subwoofer takes up. I also have a 12" kicker q class in a kicker box that I would like to reuse as part of this system.

Have you looked at these?

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Have you looked at these?

View attachment 44767View attachment 44768

The guy wants bass from door speakers those aren't gonna come even close to bass ranges. Closest midrange that can dig deep is likely the sundown vex8.

If your so interested in the pioneers just buy them to try it's just 75bucks. We all know the db drives are stupid loud midranges

 

[Darthyota]

Those vex 8's are built like a sub, but sundown doesn't have a lot of info posted on em. I also think the 4" mounting depth will be hard to overcome.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Those vex 8's are built like a sub, but sundown doesn't have a lot of info posted on em. I also think the 4" mounting depth will be hard to overcome.

Which is why they have the proclivity to actually play bass unlike most proaudio mids.

Making sure the mids are time aligned properly significantly helps with the lower frequencies as does sealing and deadening the doors. The seal ring sealing the speaker to the door card helps significantly and absorption material directly behind the speaker helps keep the upper frequencies cleaner.

Power is rather irrelevant granted I like to run alot myself. 25w for tweeters and 50w for mids is often enough and it's not unusual for these 125w amps to actually be running at much lower power output during normal use. Power is typically needed for digging into the lower frequency ranges which is why I like having much more than needed. Really it's just dynamics headroom.

Remember if it's 80db on 50w, it's 83db on 100w, and 86db on 200w you only gain 3db when doubling power. Granted this is the theoretical explanation and vehicle acoustics can make that statement less than accurate.

This is also why going from 500w to 1000w on a sub is much less noticeable that one expects. If anything you should notice the ability to play lower where power is needed to overcome suspension travel.

 

[Darthyota]

Which is why they have the proclivity to actually play bass unlike most proaudio mids.

Making sure the mids are time aligned properly significantly helps with the lower frequencies as does sealing and deadening the doors. The seal ring sealing the speaker to the door card helps significantly and absorption material directly behind the speaker helps keep the upper frequencies cleaner.

Power is rather irrelevant granted I like to run alot myself. 25w for tweeters and 50w for mids is often enough and it's not unusual for these 125w amps to actually be running at much lower power output during normal use. Power is typically needed for digging into the lower frequency ranges which is why I like having much more than needed. Really it's just dynamics headroom.

Remember if it's 80db on 50w, it's 83db on 100w, and 86db on 200w you only gain 3db when doubling power. Granted this is the theoretical explanation and vehicle acoustics can make that statement less than accurate.

This is also why going from 500w to 1000w on a sub is much less noticeable that one expects. If anything you should notice the ability to play lower where power is needed to overcome suspension travel.

Looking at the vibe audio black death speaker I posted again and comparing them to the sundowns they are built in a similar fashion, monster magnets, rear vent, and ask for lots of power 100watt minimum they just have a shallower mounting depth. I'm guessing the vex 8 has a larger magnet and it does say it has a 3" voice coil vs a 1.7" on the vibe unit, these probably contribute to the higher rms rating on the sundowns.

Isnt a 3 db gain a doubling in volume?

You also said you wouldnt run a pa style component setup, could you please explain why.

 

[deez283 10+ year member]

I'm running some Morel 8's from parts express, shallow depth and have good mid bass and can handle decent power.. Think they were like 160.00 ea.

They sound much better than the Dayton RS225's I had previous.