6.5 comparison question: Pioneer TS-C160R component vs Pioneer PIONEER TS-D161R

[1991Brougham 10+ year member]

One 6.5 has the tweet and main speaker as separate components with an outboard crossover. The other has the tweet mounted in the middle of the speaker. Both are REV series and obviously Pioneer's best, but which pair of speakers is the better one to have?

Do I go with the "components are the way to go" approach or do I go with the "why make an install any more complex than needed" approach. Is the difference in SQ between the two so dramatic that it is worth spending more for the component speaker pair as opposed to the all-in-one speaker pair?

These speakers, if added, would complement a pair of Boston Acoustics 4x6 plates and a pair of Pioneer REV series 6x9's in the back. They would be run off a second Pioneer amp that would do a 3-channel setup (60W for both fronts with 125W to a shallow mount sub in the back) as opposed to being the only speakers in the vehicle, my 1991 Brougham.

This idea of 6.5 door mounts with a sub and second amp is my idea of the second stage to my sound system. Is it a "sound" idea? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I would also upgrade the alternator to the 124 amp version I found online to handle the second amp. Any comments on that?

Rick

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[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

The componets are harder to mount.....

 

[shortyg83 10+ year member]

Revs are not pioneers best

these are

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7537_Pioneer+Premier+TS-C720PRS.html

or

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6402_Pioneer+Premier+TS-D601P.html

I would def go with component

 

[1991Brougham 10+ year member]

Thanks for the links ShortyG! After reading the review on the component set, which is pretty pricey when compared to the Premier/REV speakers, I can see that I'd better go with the 75W RMS per channel amp to be happy. I'd also upgrade the shallow mount sub to handle the 3rd channel output levels. It was curious to see Pioneer only rate these speakers at 50W RMS and yet the guy who did the review pumped in 300W RMS without blowing them. That has me puzzled. Those speakers look like the kind one could pour a lot more than 50W RMS into, so I wonder if the spec listing is mistaken?

Based on what I read on my questions regarding Pioneer Premier and REV 6x9's, it appeared that the only real difference was that Premiers offered a 2 year warranty when they were bought from an authorized dealer as opposed to the standard 1 year warranty for Pioneer's other speakers. Is there a real difference in sound between the 6.5 REV and the 6.5 Premier that would separate one from the other if I went "cheap"?

Is the difference in SQ so high that I would be better off spending 3 times the money for the higher end component speakers? The mounting would wind up leaving them buried on the front bottom of the door, so I would expect some degradation from that location, which is the only one available on the 1991 Brougham. I'm guessing that I'll lose a lot of the product's value that is relatively pricey and that going with the REV/Premier setup will not be that big a difference. However that is just a guess on my part. This forum is where I hope to end the guessing and get informed opinion before committing the money.

Rick

 

[CrossFired 10+ year member]

One 6.5 has the tweet and main speaker as separate components with an outboard crossover. The other has the tweet mounted in the middle of the speaker. Both are REV series and obviously Pioneer's best, but which pair of speakers is the better one to have?
Do I go with the "components are the way to go" approach or do I go with the "why make an install any more complex than needed" approach. Is the difference in SQ between the two so dramatic that it is worth spending more for the component speaker pair as opposed to the all-in-one speaker pair?

These speakers, if added, would complement a pair of Boston Acoustics 4x6 plates and a pair of Pioneer REV series 6x9's in the back. They would be run off a second Pioneer amp that would do a 3-channel setup (60W for both fronts with 125W to a shallow mount sub in the back) as opposed to being the only speakers in the vehicle, my 1991 Brougham.

This idea of 6.5 door mounts with a sub and second amp is my idea of the second stage to my sound system. Is it a "sound" idea? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I would also upgrade the alternator to the 124 amp version I found online to handle the second amp. Any comments on that?

Rick

Hey there, I've used both! The coax are very smooth but sound good. The mid/tweet combo has a very much better sound. Better highs and a bunch more punch.

And the PRS stuff is outstanding!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif

Also, the Kicker shallow mount will tear the Pioneer a new one! I've used both in the hatch of my 4Runner and the Kicker is a far better woofer(both were the 12").

 

[1991Brougham 10+ year member]

Given that I am running a 60W RMS x4 amp, what kind of amp would you recommend to go with the 12" shallow Kicker in order to get a good balance? If you had to mount it in a 1991 Brougham, where would you put it in order to hide it the best?

Thanks for your heads up on the coax vs component Pioneers too!

Rick

 

[CrossFired 10+ year member]

Given that I am running a 60W RMS x4 amp, what kind of amp would you recommend to go with the 12" shallow Kicker in order to get a good balance? If you had to mount it in a 1991 Brougham, where would you put it in order to hide it the best?
Thanks for your heads up on the coax vs component Pioneers too!

Rick

If you can bridge the rear channels of your amp? you could run the front channels for the 6.5's and the rear(mono) for the sub. I dont know your car, so I cant say where to put it. If thats a large car? than dont waste your time with a shallow woofer. Just get a Boston G1 10" or 12" there both 200 watts rms rated and need less than a cubic foot box.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

This would be an ok amp for your needs, http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_3821_--+CRAZY+DEAL--+--+MTX+Audio+TA4501+Thunder+4501.html

 

[1991Brougham 10+ year member]

The setup has Boston Acoustic 4x6 plates with Pioneer 6x9 REV's in the back. The second amp going in would be for the 6.5's and the sub, although I am amenable to skipping the 6.5's and going with the sub alone.

The shallow sub struck me as a good idea for concealability. The 8" Pioneer would add some bass without giving me the good ol' ghetto street thump that I'm not looking for was my idea of how the sound would come out. I have everything hidden so all anyone sees is a factory HU and thus they leave the car alone, so I'm trying to do that with the shallow sub.

How I would conceal 6.5's: I noticed a nice generic looking grill on eBay. I'd paint it a dull color that matches the interior of my car, which is a darker red burgundy. Having the Pioneer speaker with the Pioneer grill lets a flash of yellow stand out and I'm trying to kill the appearance, not enhance it. Having the 6.5's in the one possible place for them, the front lower part of the door, means they are not easily seen in the day and totally invisible at night, when the thieves like to prey.

The kick panels are totally unavailable. The emergency brake is in the way on the driver's side. The secondary container seen in GM full-sized luxury cars of this era is on the passenger side. As for the tweets if I go component. there are a pair of underdash areas that angle downward for them. There is no depth there to speak of other than for the wire but by painting the tweets the interior color, having them low mounted and angled down, I also avoid the prying eyeball problem.

I can put up with some degradation from SQ ideals if it means no one sees the system. It will still be better sounding than it came from the factory after all...LOL!

A second Pioneer amp that does the same 2/3/4 channel trick would allow me to run 60W (or 75W if I go for more power) for the 6.5's while dumping 125W or more in the case of the 75W per channel amp to the sub. I recognize that these amps aren't really dedicated to the high output that the "bumpers" have going but they'll do enough for me...I hope!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Also, I figure a second amp can be covered with a relatively inexpensive (under $200 installed) alternator upgrade to 124 amps as long as I don't get carried away by trying to be the thumpin' and bumpin' kind of guy. Going with the monochannel amp you recommend and a bigger sub means I'm getting away from what I'm trying to do, which is some good bass without overpowering the rest of the system, in addition to keeping in concealed, avoid a large investment in power supply upgrades and keeping the whole setup reasonable in cost.

I do like the idea of the Kicker sub though. If enough others here think Kicker's shallow subs do better than Pioneer's shallow subs, I'll go with a Kicker just as I went with Boston Acoustics' 4x6 plate due to so many good things being said here (and elsewhere) about them. I did spend more for the BA's than the Pioneer 4x6 plates cost but in the case of the sub, the Kicker can be had cheaper than the Pioneer, so it looks like it will all come out in the wash.

Thanks for the continuing discussion here as it lets me focus, think and mull things over. Wish I had a nice garage in the 'burbs to park whatever car I had so I could load it up with lots of bling audio but I have to park it outside where I live, so if ya'll are wondering why I have an emphasis on concealment, that's why. It's all a series of compromises to get some sort of sounds out of the Brougham but I do love my music and I do love to feel it when I drive, so figuring half a loaf is better than none, I puzzle out the situation accordingly.

Later on I have a friend who will likely buy a new full-sized truck and/or car. If he likes my Cadillac setup, he may be intrigued enough to go SQ-grade and since he also lives in a rural area on a dead end spur of a tiny road, he may be amenable to having less concealment than me and thus wind up with a higher SQ overall. What gets learned here and in the Cadillac will go a long ways toward the V2.0 build that will go in his next vehicle or vehicles.

Rick