300x1 @ 4 ohms with adjustable subsonic filter

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Title is pretty self explanatory, looking for something to prevent me from buying a zapco st-850xm.

Click to read more...

 

[HoneyBadgerRy]

If you think bigger subs = boomer you are dead wrong. Thats a myth that needs to stop being passed around by idiots newbs that dont know how to install or tune for sh*t.
Well, its a boss, you cant make assumptions on anything when all you've heard and experienced are junk woofers sorry to say. All you've mentioned are all pretty junky sound quality and build wise.

The type R 6x9s neodymiums were the best cheap shallows I could find to fit my front doors. When playing full range, I dont like them at all compared to what i have in the rear if we are talking about midrange performance. I have them purely for midbass duty which is 500hz and below but thats it They **** everywhere else in the mids and highs area in comparison to a lot of gear that i've heard that costs even less. Planning on getting proper 10" midbasses in the door in the future.

Really? My first build I had kappa 4x6 in the front, and type r 6x9 in the back and I though it sounded pretty good, just with little lack of punch.. I though the 6x9 were some of the best speakers I've heard (in that price range) and had a lot of mid bass. Alpines defiantly have more midbass than infinities. In my current build I'm going to run the 6x9 in the front and either the 4x6 or nothing in the back to start off with, and go from there. I guess I am more of a newb than I thought. So I should look for a tight 12 with a box designed for what? I guess I need even more help from this forum.

 

[HoneyBadgerRy]

What songs were boomy for you? What songs do you usually like it being punchy? This could literally be just frequency response and output. Most newbs dont know the difference.

Its not just certain songs, its all songs in general, there are systems that sound like that caddy running 30" rims and 1/8" tires with 3 16"s in a ported box, and they sound Boomy everywhere, then there are tight sub's that sound like someone getting punched. I hope I at least understand terms right. I really need to go somewhere where I can listen to systems with someone who knows there ****, but unfortunately, there are none around here. (That I know of)

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Really? My first build I had kappa 4x6 in the front, and type r 6x9 in the back and I though it sounded pretty good, just with little lack of punch.. I though the 6x9 were some of the best speakers I've heard (in that price range) and had a lot of mid bass. Alpines defiantly have more midbass than infinities. In my current build I'm going to run the 6x9 in the front and either the 4x6 or nothing in the back to start off with, and go from there. I guess I am more of a newb than I thought. So I should look for a tight 12 with a box designed for what? I guess I need even more help from this forum.

Really? My first build I had kappa 4x6 in the front, and type r 6x9 in the back and I though it sounded pretty good, just with little lack of punch.. I though the 6x9 were some of the best speakers I've heard (in that price range) and had a lot of mid bass. Alpines defiantly have more midbass than infinities. In my current build I'm going to run the 6x9 in the front and either the 4x6 or nothing in the back to start off with, and go from there. I guess I am more of a newb than I thought. So I should look for a tight 12 with a box designed for what? I guess I need even more help from this forum.

That dayton is one of the better SQ 12s out there for the money, I'd pit it up against a JL w6 anyday. It works fine in a .5 cubic feet to 1 cubic feet box depending on how deep you want to reach frequency wise. A good head unit with proper EQ can also make not just your music but your bass sound a lot better as well. Cleaner signal along with proper EQ options to get a very flat response.

Its not just certain songs, its all songs in general, there are systems that sound like that caddy running 30" rims and 1/8" tires with 3 16"s in a ported box, and they sound Boomy everywhere, then there are tight sub's that sound like someone getting punched. I hope I at least understand terms right. I really need to go somewhere where I can listen to systems with someone who knows there ****, but unfortunately, there are none around here. (That I know of)

My 18s on Rock and Metal have tight and heavy punch as well as my buddy's 15 in a T line enclosure. Smashes your chest like no other on double bass pedals. Its all back to box design man. In order to get a proper punch, you need proper output. No 8 will give you that punch, not by a long shot. Way back then i was just like you, searching for the best option to get that punch, the only answer is through a good amount of cone area, proper box design and lots of power. On songs that need to be tight and punchy, it will be tight, accurate and punchy, songs that need to hit deep notes that flexes several inches of windshield, it'll play that fine. Songs that require some boom, it'll it that fine too along with choking you by the throat.

There are also 8s that are just as boomy and loud as 3 15s too. Here's a pair of 8s in super boomy action. https://vid.me/vNEL

Those same subs can be made to sound perfect for rock and metal as well being very tight and punchy. Its ALL on the box design.

Needless to say, You have many misconceptions about car audio and bass that need to be corrected young one.

 

[HoneyBadgerRy]

That dayton is one of the better SQ 12s out there for the money, I'd pit it up against a JL w6 anyday. It works fine in a .5 cubic feet to 1 cubic feet box depending on how deep you want to reach frequency wise. A good head unit with proper EQ can also make not just your music but your bass sound a lot better as well. Cleaner signal along with proper EQ options to get a very flat response.


My 18s on Rock and Metal have tight and heavy punch as well as my buddy's 15 in a T line enclosure. Smashes your chest like no other on double bass pedals. Its all back to box design man. In order to get a proper punch, you need proper output. No 8 will give you that punch, not by a long shot. Way back then i was just like you, searching for the best option to get that punch, the only answer is through a good amount of cone area, proper box design and lots of power. On songs that need to be tight and punchy, it will be tight, accurate and punchy, songs that need to hit deep notes that flexes several inches of windshield, it'll play that fine. Songs that require some boom, it'll it that fine too along with choking you by the throat.

There are also 8s that are just as boomy and loud as 3 15s too. Here's a pair of 8s in super boomy action. https://vid.me/vNEL

Those same subs can be made to sound perfect for rock and metal as well being very tight and punchy. Its ALL on the box design.

Needless to say, You have many misconceptions about car audio and bass that need to be corrected young one.

I don't need to be flexing any windows for sure. So I guess I'm looking for a tight 12... About box tuning, I'd much rather get something ore bought so that puts me in a sealed box right? Do you know what frequency I would want for rock? I'm thinking 40-100 but again I have no idea. Would a smaller box be better for lower or higher frequencies? Just for a rule if thumb, some of my favorite songs are Metallica one, and slipknot the devil in I.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='HoneyBadgerRy']I don't need to be flexing any windows for sure. So I guess I'm looking for a tight 12... About box tuning, I'd much rather get something ore bought so that puts me in a sealed box right? Do you know what frequency I would want for rock? I'm thinking 40-100 but again I have no idea. Would a smaller box be better for lower or higher frequencies? Just for a rule if thumb, some of my favorite songs are Metallica one, and slipknot the devil in I.[/QUOTE]

.5 to .75 cubic feet for that dayton is fine, you can go with a pre-built sealed or build one yourself, it doesnt matter that much. Or if you want, you can go with an 1/4 wave Transmission line box that I've found personally is perfect for metal hit up @CSCStang for a box design, blueprint and cutout sheet if you want to build it yourself. Him and I are both metal heads and we know your exact preference lol. What you want is very strong 40-80 hz region as most metal songs emphasize on the midbass region of music.

So basically what you meant boomy is that it hits the low notes too much and not enough upper notes. This is not punchy vs boomy any more, the correct way to address this problem is you trying to get better and wider frequency response. A lot of subs cant play loud into those regions unless they are in a proper box. Most only reach up to 55hz and die out in sub par designed boxes.

 

[shizzzon 10+ year member]

The reason why you are reading wiring to higher ohm load (4ohm) is typically because of buying the cheapest amplifier for the highest actual output power.

These amps listed already are really pretty cheap in terms of quality. I can say that clearly by some of them stating what their Damping factor is which is pathetic.

The lower you wire an amplifier, the lower it's damping factor which translates into exactly what you do not want. You want a high damping factor amplifier.

Zapco, like you mentioned before, has VERY high damping factor.

One of the amplifiers listed here has a damping factor of 200. This is the typical low quality control for cheap priced amplifiers.

I know of an amplifier line coming literally any day now which is built from buildhouse that only does high quality manufacturing of electronics and low powered speakers. They do not care about SPL, only sound quality.

This Class D amp is-

Actual tested output

375w 4ohm

642.2w 2ohm

Damping Factor- 656

Compare and see for yourself-

Phoenix Gold RX 500.1-

Efficiency- 50%

Damping Factor- Greater than 200

PPI Phantom 1000.1-

Efficiency- unlisted

Damping Factor- Greater than 91

Class D amp i'm talking about-

Efficiency- 90% 4ohm | 87.8% Average to 2ohm

Damping Factor- Greater than 650

Zapco Z1KD (300w 4ohm)

Efficiency- 86% 4ohm

Damping Factor- Greater than 350

Interesting isn't it...

PM me for more details..

They have over 15years experience and have just recently starting branding their own work. They used to OEM for years.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Might as well go with a class a/b amp if you want damping factor. Amp type will not matter anywhere as important as the overall install. Not even close to a tiny bit unless we are talking about mids and highs.

 

[HoneyBadgerRy]

[quote name='Jeffdachef'].5 to .75 cubic feet for that dayton is fine, you can go with a pre-built sealed or build one yourself, it doesnt matter that much. Or if you want, you can go with an 1/4 wave Transmission line box that I've found personally is perfect for metal hit up @CSCStang for a box design, blueprint and cutout sheet if you want to build it yourself. Him and I are both metal heads and we know your exact preference lol. What you want is very strong 40-80 hz region as most metal songs emphasize on the midbass region of music.

So basically what you meant boomy is that it hits the low notes too much and not enough upper notes. This is not punchy vs boomy any more, the correct way to address this problem is you trying to get better and wider frequency response. A lot of subs cant play loud into those regions unless they are in a proper box. Most only reach up to 55hz and die out in sub par designed boxes.[/QUOTE]

By boomy I means more along the lines of subsonic rumble so I guess yeah, that's lower frequency, but that doesn't completely describe it, the sound is what it would like when you turn bass boost up to much and it has the distortion. Really any punk kid with a 12" $80 sub and a "50,000 watt peak power amp" makes the same sound and they love it, but I can't stand it... Maybe it's just distortion and I have a lot of misconceptions, but I dubt the stock Bose system in my Z would be tuned from the factory to distort at low volume.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

By boomy I means more along the lines of subsonic rumble so I guess yeah, that's lower frequency, but that doesn't completely describe it, the sound is what it would like when you turn bass boost up to much and it has the distortion. Really any punk kid with a 12" $80 sub and a "50,000 watt peak power amp" makes the same sound and they love it, but I can't stand it... Maybe it's just distortion and I have a lot of misconceptions, but I dubt the stock Bose system in my Z would be tuned from the factory to distort at low volume.

Most people actually think the low rumble IS sound quality. In fact most people on this forum DO think that lol. Bose thinks that way too, hence they design their sub to perform like that. We are actually not the norm if you can believe that....

sound quality is subjective, it'll be different for each person and how each person perceives it.

 

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Most people actually think the low rumble IS sound quality. In fact most people on this forum DO think that lol. Bose thinks that way too, hence they design their sub to perform like that. We are actually not the norm if you can believe that....
sound quality is subjective, it'll be different for each person and how each person perceives it.

Well I would say I'm alot more informed, I know more what I want, and how to properly describe it. Is there something to look for when looking for a sub, or is it mostly just getting a good quality sub and matching it with the proper box? I've never seen a sub advertised as being rumbly vs higher frequency.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Well I would say I'm alot more informed, I know more what I want, and how to properly describe it. Is there something to look for when looking for a sub, or is it mostly just getting a good quality sub and matching it with the proper box? I've never seen a sub advertised as being rumbly vs higher frequency.

Yeah the new age of bass, the low rumbling bass culture is very prevalent everywhere. People recommending others to tune their ported boxes very low which just gives a ton of low bass and very transparent midbass and they call it sound quality.

For the sub choice, the most optimal solution for you would be to have a setup just like my buddy. His mustang with two 8"s in a 1/4 wave transmission line box tuned high is just savage on metal! Very clean tight hits and great musical range and can definitely get enough output even in a big suv.

This is what the box will look like, if you can follow the wood cutout sheets and blueprints to build it, this would be your best option.

 

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Yeah the new age of bass, the low rumbling bass culture is very prevalent everywhere. People recommending others to tune their ported boxes very low which just gives a ton of low bass and very transparent midbass and they call it sound quality.
For the sub choice, the most optimal solution for you would be to have a setup just like my buddy. His mustang with two 8"s in a 1/4 wave transmission line box tuned high is just savage on metal! Very clean tight hits and great musical range and can definitely get enough output even in a big suv.

This is what the box will look like, if you can follow the wood cutout sheets and blueprints to build it, this would be your best option.

Is the ported box a must? I have fairly good fabricating skill, and a compound miter saw, but that looks like a hassle, and needs a table saw (that I don't have, I could use a circular saw I guess). I kinda would like to be able to buy something and just assemble it, but not if its going to sound rumbly.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='HoneyBadgerRy']Is the ported box a must? I have fairly good fabricating skill, and a compound miter saw, but that looks like a hassle, and needs a table saw (that I don't have, I could use a circular saw I guess). I kinda would like to be able to buy something and just assemble it, but not if its going to sound rumbly.[/QUOTE]

Thats not a ported box, thats a 1/4 wave transmission line. You've never heard one so you have no idea what magic that box does lol.


If you really lazy and dont want to build a box you can try this sub, @Roland has experience with these and the says these excel in the midbass range in a 1 cubic feet sealed box

Pioneer TS-W1200PRO PRO-Series 1500W 12" Subwoofer

They also dont hit the low notes that well so you might not even need a subsonic filter. In a sealed box, the box itself acts as a natural subsonic filter.

That sub looks like the type they use in rock concerts judging from the surround.

 

[trillest11 10+ year member]

I was thinking along the same lines as you when building my system. I really wasn't heading Ina solitary direction since I haven't heard modern systems. So what I did and suggest it for you is flexibility. Get an amp that is one ohm stable and get speakers that are more than just one voice coil. I have a dual voice coil 2 ohms each. So I run it now at 4 ohms and sounds amazing already. But oce broke in I will wire my sub to one ohm and put twice the power to it. One thing to keep in mind too is that a ported box for an 8" single woofer is not easy to make. It's a pain to get the port length you need if you keep the appropriate port area. For example my box is .8cuft but I have a 30" port external. But it sounds amazing.

 

[pickup1 5,000+ posts]

I have an amp for you...still looking?

 

[ace_800 5,000+ posts]

B2 Audio Zero.3? Rated at 1200rms@1 ohm, 600@2, 300@4 at 12v, if you can keep it over 14v it will do 2000rms @ 1, 1000@2, and 500@4ohm. Its still in use. There is a black mark on the front and overspray on a fin.

 

[Tandrews93]

A kenwood 1000watt 500rms @2 300rms@4 one of the best amps for the price I feel u can get them on Craigslist all day for 50$ or Amazon for 80$ normally